Return-Path: X-Original-To: apmail-openoffice-dev-archive@www.apache.org Delivered-To: apmail-openoffice-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by minotaur.apache.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B83A8ECDB for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2013 18:13:29 +0000 (UTC) Received: (qmail 33335 invoked by uid 500); 23 Feb 2013 18:13:29 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-openoffice-dev-archive@openoffice.apache.org Received: (qmail 33237 invoked by uid 500); 23 Feb 2013 18:13:29 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@openoffice.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@openoffice.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@openoffice.apache.org Received: (qmail 33220 invoked by uid 99); 23 Feb 2013 18:13:29 -0000 Received: from athena.apache.org (HELO athena.apache.org) (140.211.11.136) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 23 Feb 2013 18:13:29 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.7 required=5.0 tests=FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of samer519@gmail.com designates 209.85.217.172 as permitted sender) Received: from [209.85.217.172] (HELO mail-lb0-f172.google.com) (209.85.217.172) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Sat, 23 Feb 2013 18:13:22 +0000 Received: by mail-lb0-f172.google.com with SMTP id n8so1314659lbj.3 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2013 10:13:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=AX4XBb3woHumGipzhDeLB54AGJ+Lt3ErsRE/RgSDgA0=; b=EXNu6QBT0oH1YsFGwAe62nZf2WNXMscwOTYVHXdKbGbesboUj1pLBzkKuenc4gzYJd suKzJt53DuLtI2/Wzqt6DNTi3AHaO7jpRuhevRwkfYgHA2dUJFoMxF3gs3pmG9U4MSJv kd5U5oma/n/46gfcFzeNx6Y1iaBa8w9YotRbGsuKofEFckBpwLpEcpeYXw7mrwLqXGaC a9kTPB8Up2Qezfd4ghtn4UJZPPiQuVWbmitwageMRLqTroeOeF8M9tSO/TAR292TM4du /wrh/xRcOJDCHbcyPoKXUPeBWsj3GgThyNUNbg1btPbeTNsh1vFy+UHSdWeaucXEd9Rr zPCA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.49.99 with SMTP id t3mr2454415lbn.108.1361643180177; Sat, 23 Feb 2013 10:13:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.152.3.105 with HTTP; Sat, 23 Feb 2013 10:13:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <2AC80A0A-C9C2-4B56-B12C-6F5F4EA7954F@comcast.net>

<26E9D777-C699-437E-B5F7-FFF4D867CC2E@comcast.net> <5127225E.1040004@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2013 13:13:00 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Branding Refresh For AOO 4.0 [Closing in 72hrs] From: Samer Mansour To: dev@openoffice.apache.org, marketing@openoffice.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec553ff3c10bba404d6684213 X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org --bcaec553ff3c10bba404d6684213 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I've reached out to Nicholas Kwiatkowski of the Apache Flex project, he is on the volunteer page as "Working on components, website, marketing." I've asked if he knows any volunteers who can help us in the area of website design, icons, splash screens, etc. as we'll need help implementing those. I'll begin working with Robin F., Chris R., and Michael A. this week in the mean time. Samer Mansour On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 12:36 PM, Samer Mansour wrote: > Hey Everyone, > > Let me first admit I felt Saturday (72 hrs) was short, but at the same > time necessary. I expected someone would have said "Wait I volunteer to > make a proposal but I just don't have enough time in the next few days." > > On date and rush: > The date that floated for design assets to be ready for consumption is > April 4th, 2013 which is 40 days from this writing. We all would like to > have the refresh integrated into the RCs, where applicable. What I've se= en > produced in the last two months has been more than the previous 10 months > and is amazing work. If we pick something and just do it, I think we can > make the 04/04 target. Our volunteers are very eager to start. > > On Voting: > I asked for comments into the wiki's so that everyone can proposes ideas > even if they are not artistically inclined. I'm relatively new to the > community so I'm not sure what warrants a vote or how a change like in th= is > particular situation is incorporated into the product, its not code to be > checked in per say, but it is an asset. > > On Flex: > Our community's make up is a little different. We have everyday students > and diverse work industries using our product. Flex's community by nature > is more exposed to designers. I would be horrified to find flex's > community had anything less than an amazing site. Having said that I wou= ld > totally be okay with approaching the flex community and asking humbly tha= t > we could use some help of theirs. Also I think their designer nature > contributed to why they may have had 50 proposals :D > > Moving Forward: > I know this will be a very opinionated activity. I invite anyone who is > passionate about this activity to join the marketing team to help us do t= he > work and complete the assets. > I need a shed and they give me a purple one, I'm going to have to trust > them. It is easier for me to take the opinion of someone if they did the > work. > > Integration of the team: > I've already seen activity that leads me to believe I'm taking the right > path. Robin proposed a full design and someone suggested the script font > was a little off. Robin agreed, the output now is something +2 agree > with. If more input is given, my good faith says it will converge to a > high percentage of the community's desires, but not necessarily everyone'= s. > > Samer Mansour > > > On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 2:46 AM, J=FCrgen Schmidt = wrote: > >> On 2/22/13 1:21 AM, Dave Fisher wrote: >> > >> > On Feb 21, 2013, at 4:02 PM, Dave Fisher wrote: >> > >> >>>> (Note this discussion is going to be difficult because we are >> posting between two lists.) >> >> >> >> Adding back marketing, who are doing wonderful work. >> > >> > Look at http://flex.apache.org/. >> > >> > It might be an inspiration for someone. >> >> I saw the flex one before and was very impressed by the new logo. Maybe >> you can reach out there if some of the designers are interested to help >> us as well. A logo (and more design elements) for a 40 million >> downloaded app should be motivating. >> >> Juergen >> >> > >> > Regards, >> > Dave >> > >> >> >> >> On Feb 21, 2013, at 2:23 PM, Rob Weir wrote: >> >> >> >>> On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Dave Fisher >> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> On Feb 20, 2013, at 8:13 AM, Samer Mansour wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Hello AOO Dev and Marketing Community, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The main subject of this e-mail is to call for an end date to >> proposals. >> >>>>> In 72hrs (saturday) we will be closing branding proposals. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> - - - - - >> >>>>> >> >>>>> I am heading up the branding effort for the AOO 4.0 release and we >> can >> >>>>> unanimously agree the 4.0 release will be a milestone for our >> community and >> >>>>> users. For this special release the marketing team is taking on >> the effort >> >>>>> to giving us a fresh look. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The marketing team is starting to plot deadlines at the same time >> as the >> >>>>> dev team, the marketing team can't keep proposing ideas forever, w= e >> >>>>> actually need to do the work to get us there. Specially because >> some dev >> >>>>> efforts require assets from our designers. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> What does that mean? >> >>>>> - We're picking and choosing. Late submissions might not be >> considered >> >>>>> (just the nature of "just do it" sorry). >> >>>>> - Eliminating designs we don't like and smoothing and integrating >> ones we >> >>>>> do like. >> >>>>> - In a week from Saturday we will have a master proposal to presen= t >> for >> >>>>> lazy consensus. (at least that's the plan) >> >>>> >> >>>> I do not think that this can operate as lazy consensus,. it is a >> process that is more opinion based than most. >> >>>> >> >>>> It is possible that the Marketing team can make some discussions, >> but the community may have other preferences. >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> Indeed I assume there would be many opinions. But in the discussion >> >>> that had lead up to this has noted that there are well-established >> >>> design and marketing best practices for logo desgin, and giving some >> >>> trust to those volunteers with knowledge of these disciplines might >> >>> yield a better result that throwing it out to a general vote of 400 >> >>> subscribers to the dev list and their individual non-expert opinions= . >> >>> >> >>> Now you could argue that opinions of non-experts is useful, and what >> >>> the general public thinks is important. True, but that is better do= ne >> >>> with an expertly-designed survey of the general public, not by >> >>> bikeshedding on the dev list. >> >> >> >> The opinions of non-experts are useful and that is a fact. This is no= t >> general public opinion it is the AOO community. An expertly designed sur= vey >> is often called a BALLOT. Please design one to either validate a single >> decision, or to choose between a few of the designs so that the result i= s >> not a fait accompli. >> >> >> >> Validation is good. >> >> >> >>> We've kicked the can down the road with regards to a grand contest f= or >> >>> almost a year now. We're no closer to than we were when we started. >> >>> Do we want to ship 4.0 with a half-assed logo attempt done at the la= st >> >>> minute? Or do we want to let the marketing experts push this forwar= d. >> >> >> >> Straw man. One year ago we had maybe 2 or 3 logo proposals. Now there >> are several logos and designs proposed and only a few are IMO half-assed= . >> Many IMO are excellent! >> >> >> >>> And remember, if someone really doesn't like the output of this >> >>> process, they can object and offer an alternative at any time. But = I >> >>> don't think we can force a volunteer, or group of volunteers, to >> >>> pursue a contest versus an approach based on best practices and >> >>> working with a small set of already-active volunteers. >> >> >> >> Three points. >> >> >> >> (1) There is a public solicitation for proposals. These submissions >> must be fairly treated. >> >> >> >> (2) No force is involved. Just a suggestion and a reminder that LAZY >> CONSENSUS should not be assumed. If necessary we can design a ballot on = the >> dev list. >> >> >> >> (3) The only legitimate VETO here is if the Logo and Design selected >> infringed or nearly infringed on another's mark (like one subtly does), = or >> if it were somehow foul and offensive in some culture. In that case the >> technical alternative is to choose one of the non-infringing or insultin= g >> logos or designs. >> >> >> >> A VETO is a "let's discuss this" it must not be a "your work is awful >> take it back." >> >> >> >> This argues that the sooner the community agrees the better. The >> Apache Way is about the flattest hierarchy possible. Decisions are to ma= de >> (validated) on the dev list. >> >> >> >> Thanks and Regards, >> >> Dave >> >> >> >>> >> >>> Regards, >> >>> >> >>> -Rob >> >>> >> >>>> I don't think that we need to be afraid of having a VOTE. Rules can >> be generated and this dev list can tolerate the extra traffic. >> >>>> >> >>>> I participated in a two round vote for Apache Flex. There were over >> 50 entries. Each ballot had 5 votes which allowed people with strong >> opinions to vote for one logo and others who liked many designs could sp= lit >> their vote. >> >>>> >> >>>> (Note this discussion is going to be difficult because we are >> posting between two lists.) >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> How can you help? >> >>>>> - - - - - >> >>>>> - I have design skills! (or I think!) >> >>>>> -> Check out some guidelines and placements of the branding, see >> children >> >>>>> of this cwiki page: >> >>>>> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4= .0+Brand+Refresh+Project >> >>>>> -> Go to our wiki and sketch out some ideas here: >> >>>>> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/AOO+4.x+-+Logo+Expl= orations >> >>>>> -> They don't have to be complete or polished ideas, ie. you only >> have >> >>>>> ideas for icons and only have 2 hours to create the proposal, >> capture the >> >>>>> main idea but don't worry about detail. >> >>>>> -> Join the marketing mailing list to help us with implementing th= e >> final >> >>>>> design: >> https://blogs.apache.org/OOo/entry/call_for_marketing_volunteers >> >>>>> >> >>>>> - I don't have design skills?! >> >>>>> -> Go to our wiki and help us by commenting on designs, DO NOT >> reply with >> >>>>> comments about design in these mailing lists. >> >>>>> -> There is about 10 pages and they all could use some feedback in >> the >> >>>>> comments: >> >>>>> >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Apache+OpenOffice+4= .0+Brand+Refresh+Project >> >>>>> -> I will call for any final discussion on Saturday once the >> deadline has >> >>>>> passed. >> >>>> >> >>>> I have added comments including the volunteer and organization >> hurdles to make certain branding changes. >> >>>> >> >>>> Regards, >> >>>> Dave >> >>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> If you have any concerns about this process reply here. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Do not reply to this e-mail to talk about designs! Go to the wiki >> and add >> >>>>> design comments there! >> >>>> >> >> >> > >> >> > --bcaec553ff3c10bba404d6684213--