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From Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: OpenOffice thin client edition - why not?
Date Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:36:53 GMT
On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 8:34 AM, Inge Wallin <inge@lysator.liu.se> wrote:
> On Sunday, January 27, 2013 03:33:20 Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Inge Wallin <inge@lysator.liu.se> wrote:
>
>> > On Wednesday, January 23, 2013 21:33:04 Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> >> On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:06 AM, Inge Wallin <inge@lysator.liu.se>
>> >> wrote:
>
>> >> > On Friday, January 18, 2013 15:21:01 Ian Lynch wrote:
>
>> >> >> On 18 January 2013 13:18, Fernando Cassia <fcassia@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> >> >> > On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Ian Lynch <ianrlynch@gmail.com>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>
>> >> >> >> What we really need is a cloud version of AOO like Google
Docs.
>
>> >> >> >
>
>> >> >> > We don´t *need* ONE thing. That´s the beauty of open source,
´we´
>
>> >> >> > could do *several* things.
>
>> >> >>
>
>> >> >> Well yes, but it is more efficient to do one thing that covers
many
>
>> >> >> needs rather than try and do many things with not enough resource.
>
>> >> >>
>
>> >> >> > I for one don´t ´need´ an AJAX / HTML5 version of AOO...
GDocs is
>
>> >> >> > fine...
>
>> >> >>
>
>> >> >> A lot of people would say yes but GDocs is not open source.
>
>> >> >> Some people would say MS Office is fine and others would say
>> >> >> Koffice.
>
>> >> >> Question is whether or not we want a long term sustainable project
>
>> >> >> for the community or one that will get more and more marginalised.
>
>> >> >
>
>> >> > As a side note: While I am happy that KOffice is mentioned now and
>
>> >> > then on this list, I think it would be proper to mention the Calligra
>
>> >> > Suite instead. KOffice is not being developed any more while Calligra
>
>> >> > is running full speed ahead.
>
>> >>
>
>> >> Hi Inge,
>
>> >>
>
>> >> Thanks for the reminder. Getting people to recognize a name change
>
>> >> takes time, and repetition. We still see on a daily basis people
>
>> >> expressing surprise to learn that OpenOffice is now at Apache.
>
>> >>
>
>> >> Are you planning to be at the KDE conference in July in Bilbao? It
>
>> >> might good to have someone from AOO attend. Aside from the obvious
>
>> >> common interest in ODF, it would be interesting to see if there are
>
>> >> any other opportunities for collaboration.
>
>> >
>
>> > Yes, I will definitely be in Bilbao unless something very serious
>
>> > happens. I would love to meet you there and talk about collaboration
>
>> > between our projects.
>
>> >
>
>> > I can see two areas where we could start immediately without much talk:
>
>> >
>
>> > 1. test documents
>
>> >
>
>> > Calligra has ~3500 test documents in ODF (odt, ods, odp), MS binary
>> > (doc,
>
>> > xls, ppt) and MS xml (docx, xlsx, pptx) formats. I suppose that there is
>
>> > a test suite available for AOO as well.
>
>>
>
>> Are these documents "from the wild" or documents created specifically
>
>> for tests? I remember hearing Jos describe a technique for creating
>
>> test documents that sounded interesting.
>
> They are not hand hacked xml but where created specifically for testing the
> respective function by testers employed by Nokia. They where done originally
> for the document viewer application in the Nokia N900 and then later
> extended for the viewer in the Nokia N9.
>
>> I recall Microsoft having a collection of test documents as well, that
>
>> they shared at a plugfest a few years ago.
>
> Must have been one that I didn't attend. :/ It would be interesting to see
> those documents.
>

It was mainly ODF-documents created in MS Office.  It was a sizable
set of test docs.  They made it available for use during the Plugfest
but also said the documents might be made available to a more general
test collection if other companies made their test documents availalbe
as well.

>> I have a few "interesting" test documents, but the Symphony test
>
>> documents are IBM-internal right now, since many of them are customer
>
>> files that we may not share. But if there is interest (across
>
>> projects) in creating a collection of test office documents in several
>
>> formats, then I would investigate to see if there are some that we
>
>> could contribute.
>
> The most "interessting" one we have is created by MS Office. It's valid ODT
> but not structured the same way as LO/AOO normally does it. We had to work a
> lot to make that render correctly. :)
>
>> > The documents that Calligra has access to are structured not only
>
>> > according to format but also to feature, such as pictures, text
>
>> > formatting, graphics (smart art, etc), and so on.
>
>>
>
>> Excellent.
>
>>
>
>> > It would be great if we could work to create an even bigger and better
>
>> > database of test documents which covers even more features.
>
>>
>
>> Yes. But where to do this? OASIS is not really set up to do this.
>
>> (and it sounds like it would be best to do more than just ODF test
>
>> documents), It could be done in the AOO project, but that may make it
>
>> difficult (politically) for some to contribute. Without arguing the
>
>> reasons for that view, I think it is (sadly) current reality. Other
>
>> choices might be the ODF Toolkit project (where we have the ODF
>
>> Validator) or OfficeShots (which allows automated online testing).
>
> Or just continue with the KDE repository? Check out:
> svn://anonsvn.kde.org/home/kde/trunk/tests/calligratests
>
> Getting a KDE commit account is much easier than an Apache one.
>

Easier on the KDE side, perhaps.  But the review/approval cycle on my
side, due to IBM process requirements, goes up significantly for
participating/contributing in open source projects where we are not
already participants.  But it is worth doing if that is the best fit
for everyone else.   I have a good contact at Microsoft.  I'll check
with him to get his thoughts/constraints.

Does anyone know what LibreOffice has in terms of test documents?

Question:  what is the license on the Nokia-authored test documents?

-Rob


>> > 2. Interoperability and ODF confomance.
>
>> >
>
>> > It would be good if you could give a high priority to bugs which make
>
>> > interoperability with other ODF suites such as Calligra. In Calligra we
>
>> > already have a special bug category for ODF related bugs and these are
>
>> > always treated with speed and priority.
>
>>
>
>> We have an XML "product" in Bugzilla where ODF bugs are categorized,
>
>> as well as other XML-related import/export issues in XHTML, XSLT, etc.
>
>> But if you have a specific set of ODF issues that you think we should
>
>> raise in priority, posting that list to this mailing list would help.
>
>>
>
>> Regards,
>
>>
>
>> -Rob
>
>>
>
>> > What do you say?
>
>> >
>
>> > -Inge
>
>> >>
>
>> >> Regards,
>
>> >>
>
>> >> -Rob
>
>> >>
>
>> >> > -Inge
>
>> >> >> >
>
>> >> >> > I personally think browser based apps are a pig, and doing
apps in
>
>> >> >> > JScript is insane. I had Chrome open the other day just with
GMail
>
>> >> >> > and it was using over 150 MB of RAM...
>
>> >> >>
>
>> >> >> Not really a big problem with modern multi-gig computers (including
>
>> >> >> future mobile technologies). Less of a problem than stuff that
only
>
>> >> >> works on one device or needs a lot of effort to port across
>
>> >> >> multi-devices, operating systems etc. To me open standards are
worth
>
>> >> >> paying a bit of a price for in terms of machine resources since
the
>
>> >> >> latter continue to grow and get less expensive.
>
>> >> >>
>
>> >> >> > A thin client virtualized version on the other hand would
use the
>
>> >> >> > PC´s CPU and horsepower and deliver great speed to even to
lowest
>
>> >> >> > powered devices.
>
>> >> >>
>
>> >> >> Assuming you have someone to host it for you. O a global scale
that
>
>> >> >> is not trivial to do which is probably why Google with all its
>
>> >> >> resources does what it does.
>
>> >> >>
>
>> >> >> > But of course, that´s going in a different direction from
the
>
>> >> >> > current fad....
>
>> >> >>
>
>> >> >> Swimming against global trends is not a sensible idea when you
have
>
>> >> >> very limited resources and very little time.
>
>> >> >>
>
>> >> >> > FC

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