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From Andre Fischer <awf....@gmail.com>
Subject Re: OpenOffice Developer Room (devroom) at FOSDEM
Date Fri, 02 Nov 2012 09:01:06 GMT
On 01.11.2012 17:27, jan iversen wrote:
> A brilliant idea, especially if I may copy some of your slides...

Sure.

>
> I am still fumbling how the build works, and to be honest (NOT to criticize
> anyone) I am not impressed.

That is a very friendly way to put it.   I am still trying not to sound 
too negative in my talk and find that not being easy.

But I am currently preparing a slide about all the things that the build 
system has to handle:

     Languages: 20, soon maybe 30
     Platforms: Windows, Linux 32/64, MacOSX, FreeBSD OS/2, Solaris
     Package formats: archive, msi, deb, rpm, dmg
     Products: OpenOffice, language packs, SDK (all regular and as 
developer build), URE

     several external libraries with their own build systems
     several programming languages to compile and link

     and it is doing all this for more than 15 years


So, it could be better but it could also be worse.
But criticizing is not something bad, it is the first step in making the 
system better.

>
> Just one thing:
>
> I do a "build --all", which comes back OK, then I do a second "build --all"
> and to my surprise it generates a couple of libraries again..I assumed I
> had missed an error, so I tried it a third time, same thing happened,
> libraries was built.
>
> In my opion (and according with normal makefile schemes) once it completes
> without errors, it  should not build anything a second time.

You are right but and in most cases the reason for the repeated building 
will be badly written makefiles.
But there are some reasons why it is how it is:
     - The dmake part of the build system does not have inter-module 
dependencies on file granularity.  You either build a whole module or 
you don't.
     - File based inter-module dependencies take a lot of time to 
process.  That was not possible 10 years back.
       Build sw today and you will experience a delay of a few 
seconds.   That is the time it takes to ready the dependencies of only 
those modules that
       have already been converted to gbuild.

Again, you are right in your expectations.  We are going in that 
direction, but slowly.


>
> But putting that aside, I would be happy to focus on localization together
> with j├╝rgen, but if it is something you want to do it yourself thats ok
> with me.

I will have my share of giving talks at ApacheCon (three talks).  It 
would be great if you could cover FOSDEM.

-Andre

>
> Jan.
>
>
> On 1 November 2012 16:55, Andre Fischer <awf.aoo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 30.10.2012 22:10, jan iversen wrote:
>>
>>> Just for info, Juergen told me that he was going to talk about l10n on
>>> apacheCon, so I suggested that we could make a speech at FOSDEM, because
>>> at
>>> that time the new workflow is hopefully ready or so close that we know all
>>> details.
>>>
>>> A good theme for a main speech would be how the handle the build (and
>>> release) process with internationalization in a big project like AOO.
>>>
>> Hi Jan,
>>
>> I will be talking at ApacheCon EU about the AOO build system and only
>> briefly mention l10n (how it works today).
>> Maybe you want to give a similar talk at FOSDEM but with a strong focus on
>> l10n?
>>
>> -Andre
>>
>>


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