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From eric b <>
Subject Re: [Request] create mailing list
Date Wed, 09 Nov 2011 07:58:27 GMT
Hi Shane,

Le 8 nov. 11 à 23:48, Shane Curcuru a écrit :

> As a mentor, I have two comments:
> - When requesting a new mailing list, it is critical to clearly  
> define the focus and expected community that would use a list.  In  
> particular, showing specific threads on other lists that would be  
> better moved to the new list is helpful to give others a detailed  
> explanation of the kinds of things a new list proposer would expect  
> to see on the new list.

The TDF/LO people did something intelligent about that, and really  
separate what is devel form what is not.

The link I have i mind is : 
Everything is clearly explained and seems to be well accepted.

> Creating new email lists is simple technically, but should be  
> approached with caution in terms of the effects of splitting  
> community energy.

It is not convinced you split energy separating pure development and  
what is not. There is a dynamic on ooo-dev list, in the sense people  
producing code ( anything producing website or something close to  
code) are active and start working together.

The problem is, the number of posts is too high for a development  
list, and that's mainly why I suggested to create a new list.

My idea was to filter better what is pure development and what is  
not, giving a very well tested solution to people who want to say  
something, but don't know where ask. Including good questions,  
triggering active and productive discussion who could be redirected  
to ooo-dev when needed.

I really think there is something promising occuring, and OOo devel  
is back. Even if we need to organize a bit, define some rules (e.g.  
before to commit something in the code, verify nothing is  
broken ...), define rules for the Issues, and so on.

> - I highly recommend that people view through the slides for the  
> well-respected "How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People"  
> set of slides:
> poisonous-people

I know that, very well, and thanks a lot for the reminder : we (not  
only me, but other people helping me) tried to follow the method when  
I took over the Education Project.

Some facts : when I started, with fantastic contributors like Rakesh  
Pandit and other, who gave up since (tired by Louis obstruction), the  
Education Project had 6 members. We lead it to over 100 members, and  
crated a lot of things. We attracted students, managed lot of  
projects, and produced code.

The Education Projects, like the Mac OS X porting project were the  
most active ever in But the problem was people  
blocking any initiative from active people, and even forcing us to  
create our own external project : that's why EducOOo was born.

As I wrote, the Community Management was a total mess, and what  
happened in OOo was exactly the opposite of what should be a true  
open project, in the sense of Shane set of slides.

The people in question are Louis and his friends (Kazunari  
Hirano,Charles Schultz and some other today in TDF/LO).  They  
effectively poisoned the Education Project (in the exact same way  
described in the document Shane mentioned. This is the simple truth,  
and everything is in the archives (excepted if they were deleted in  
meantime ...). I'm only reporting facts, warning to not redo the same  
errors over and over.

I'm sorry I can't defend what I say better, because I'm not a native  
speaker (english is definitely a barrier for me), but I have no  
problem to explain quietly the story of the previous mess.
I never trahired the Project, but I don't want to  
return to the "usefull idiot" status.

Last but not least, I respect and I really appreciate Dennis, Rob,  
Shane (and other) impressive work, and I'm glad to see how the  
project is managed and growing.

Eric Bachard

Projet OOo4Kids :
L'association EducOOo :
Blog :

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