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From Ian Lynch <>
Subject Re: Neutral / shared security list ...
Date Tue, 25 Oct 2011 17:18:51 GMT
On 25 October 2011 18:01, Rob Weir <> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Florian Effenberger
> <> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Rob Weir wrote on 2011-10-25 18:38:
> >>
> >> I believe it is a bad pattern to establish for collaboration.  We need
> >> to recognize that TDf/LO exists as a project, and AOOo exists as a
> >> project.  Once we acknowledge this then it logically follows that
> >> collaboration will occur between these two projects.  Do we create a
> >> new mailing list or website, or wiki or whatever, every time we want
> >> to collaborate?  Is that what we really want to start doing?  If we
> >> want to coordinate on maintaining a module, we can't do it at Apache?
> >> If we want to share translation strings, we can't do it at TDF?  If we
> >> want to share anything, we need to create and maintain an entirely new
> >> infrastructure for it?  Sorry, that does not make sense.
> >
> > answering questions with other questions does not make sense.
> >
> > Again, given the history of this topic, I think neutral grounds make
> sense.
> > I made a proposal, and so far I have not heard any compelling reason why
> > this proposal is wrong.
> >
> > And I doubt you will name me one, because there is none.
> It is like making a baby.

Well babies are usually made from love and tenderness (unless it's a
mistake) and I don't see too much of that in this approach. At least to get
started why not do it on a neutral list? Florian has made a perfectly
reasonable case for it. Is that so much to give up just to get something
going? In terms of baby making I'd say we need some serious marriage
guidance before even talking about getting in bed together never mind
wrapping anything in latex.

As a PPMC member I think we should show good will by going along with
Florian's suggestion and at least get one area of definite cooperation.
Where it happens is totally irrelevant.

>  If you are covered head to toe in latex, it
> ain't going to happen.  You're trying to do collaboration in a
> hermetically sealed box, wearing gloves and pinching your nose so you
> don't have to smell the other party.  Nothing useful will come from
> that sterile approach.  Those who want to collaborate need to start
> getting dirty, working on each other's existing mailing lists (sacre
> bleu!) and acting more like hackers and less like cold war diplomats
> arguing over the shape of the negotiating table.  Collaboration is not
> about neutrality.  It is about collaboration.  The sooner we
> acknowledge this out the sooner we'll achieve results.
> Again, I invite you to accept our hospitality graciously, and continue
> participation in the long-established OOo secrurityteam mailing list,
> soon to be under Apache control and hosting.  I'd also love it if you
> thought of some TDF-hosted service, in some other area, where you
> could return the favor and allow us the honor of accepting your
> hospitality, and give us the opportunity to demonstrate that we have
> no problems in principle with collaborating with TDF/LO on web sites
> that they control.
> -Rob
> > Out for today, doing things that make sense.
> >
> > Florian
> >
> > --
> > Florian Effenberger <>
> > Steering Committee and Founding Member of The Document Foundation
> > Tel: +49 8341 99660880 | Mobile: +49 151 14424108
> > Skype: floeff | Twitter/ @floeff
> >


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