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From Christian Grobmeier <>
Subject Re: [Proposal] Give the BHV publishing house in Kaarst/Germany the permission to use the trademark and logo
Date Sun, 28 Aug 2011 19:22:31 GMT

> For your lazy consensus, when is the expiration at which time you propose to act?

a lazy consensus is not necessary.

> Also, because this is a matter involving legalities, I'm not sure lazy consensus works
here.  We need to check with the trademark-policy folks to understand what the ceremony is.
 I suspect that any permission must come from them, not one of us.  But they may want the
recommendation of the PPMC, which is what the lazy consensus would then be for.
> It may be that the publisher does not require specific permission from us: See <>.
 But if they do, or if as a publisher they are wary of not having an explicit agreement,
I think it needs to come from an officer of ASF.

I think this is pretty clear:

"You may write about Apache Foo software, and use our trademarks in
book or article titles. You needn't ask us for permission to refer to
Foo, as in "Foo for Dummies", or "Explaining Foo", or "Foo
Simplified", or "O'Reilly Guide to Foo", or even "Avoiding Foo". We
prefer that you refer to "Apache Foo" rather than simply "Foo" in the
title if it fits, and we request that you clearly identify that
"Apache", "Apache Foo", and "Foo" are trademarks of the Apache
Software Foundation wherever you normally acknowledge important
trademarks in your book or article."

Nobody has to ask to use the term Apache But it is
preferred that the booktitile is "Apache 3.3 für Ein-
und Umsteiger".

There are few other rules which must apply as stated on the trademarks website.


> Since this is our first try at this, I have copied the trademarks@ address.
>  - Dennis
> HMMM...
> Also, and this is probably not the right time for this (especially for
3.3), we might want to come up with a request (or requirement?) that publishers include a
link to locations under our support where current information, updates, and support about can be found.  (That would be separate from links the publisher might provide
for updates on their book and on the 10,000+ templates that are provided on the DVD.)
> We also, now that I think about it, need to provide information in our distros and maybe
for use in print, about the availability of source code for a specific release and for information
on source code for other releases, including the latest.
> [I think I will flag these two as notes-to-self for something we need to pay attention
to.  The specific source-code-availability requirement may not be so strict under ALv2 and
Apache practice, in contrast with the LGPL requirement.  It seems like a great thing to perpetuate,
regardless.  It is another reason to keep the domain name operating because
of linking from material in print as well as on-line.]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Junge []
> Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 09:33
> To:
> Cc:
> Subject: [Proposal] Give the BHV publishing house in Kaarst/Germany the permission to
use the trademark and logo
> Hi,
> I would like to propose --*seeking lazy consensus*-- that the BHV
> publishing GmbH, Novesiastrasse 60, D-41564 Kaarst (Germany) is
> permitted to use the logo and trademark for their book
> (in preparation) " 3.3 für Ein- und Umsteiger" [1] [2],
> means something like "OOo 3.3 for beginners and people who are
> migrating" in English. This package includes a handbook (printed and
> eBook) and a DVD with the OOo binaries. The OOo logo and trademark would
> be used on the book cover, within the book and on the label of the DVD.
> BHV has been publishing similar books for previous versions of OOo for
> many years, e.g. [3].
> I would like to advocate granting the OOo logo usage to BHV, as such
> books foster the public visibility of OOo.
> Mr. Ralf Kraft, representing BHV (nit subscribed to this ML) is on CC.
> (NOTE: The mock-up of the cover is still using the old OOo logo, but I
> already have been pointing out to Mr. Kraft that using the latest logo
> [4] would be preferred.)
> Best regards,
> Peter
> [1]
> [2] (including
> ISBN code)
> [3]
> [4]


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