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From Irina Arkhipets <irina.arkhip...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: AEC in the new release
Date Fri, 26 Apr 2013 11:04:33 GMT
Hi All,

Artyom just made some changes and for now AEC parameters can be
configurable via config.xml.

So we are planning to have some testing on demo.dataved.ru on the nearest
Monday (April, 29).

Approximate time is 15:00 NSK (GMT +7), and still we can move the time if
it's inconvenient.

If somebody from the list would like to participate - you are welcome, just
let me know :).

The testing scenario would be to enter the room and do the same things with
the different settings:

   -

   No echo cancellation (echoPath=0) and all the other settings are default
   -

   Echo path length is 128 ms and all the other settings are default
   -

   Echo path length is 256 ms and all the other settings are default
   -

   Camera codec is H264 (codecType=264) and all the other settings are
   default
   -

   Camera codec is H263 and all the other settings are default

There are several other settings which can affect the sound quality,
however I would suggest try only AEC and codec for now as these are new
features implemented in the new release.

In the room, users should check the following things:

   -

   Speak and check if there is echo or not
   -

   Measure approximate delay (if any) between the video and sound. For
   example, somebody count to 10 and lifts his fingers, others look for the
   video and sound synchronization.

To check the echo better, we need several attendees with notebooks - my
experience shows that echo problems appears with notebooks very often.

What do you think?

Any ideas are welcomed!

Best regards,

Irina.




On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 3:53 PM, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
seba.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:

> IMHO having yet another checkbox where the user can decide to enable or
> disable AEC can be only an additional thing on top of a general system wide
> configuration.
>
> The problem with this is for example that the average user does not even
> know what AEC means.
> Or what is the difference between hardware echo cancellation and software
> echo cancellation ?!
> So what would be the benefit for him in having a checkbox tagged "enabled
> AEC" ?
>
> One of the concerns people have against OpenMeetings is its complexity.
> They just want to conference and not bother around with a lot of options.
>
> I would also not disable the AEC feature by default as long as there is no
> concrete use-case where AEC (or enhancedMicro mode) leads to an issue.
>
> Same for h264. There was a discussion that included h264 a couple of weeks
> ago:
> http://markmail.org/message/fctg6eo5qf5hhcaa
>
> The consens was:
>  - The amount of CPU that our clients needed more was not measurable.
>  - There is no concrete use case where enabling or disabling h264 would
> improve anything
> I agree that having a config for the Video codec, same as the Microphone
> Mode, would be nice.
> But changing any defaults now back and forth without concrete use cases and
> some kind of test plan does not make a lot of sense to me.
>
> So what I would propose is:
>  - Make Microphone and VideoCodec configurable and documentate this
>  - Set up a concrete test plan and communicate that through our mailing
> lists.
> Based on the feedback we might then discuss changing some defaults.
>
> Sebastian
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2013/4/23 Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>
>
> > My previous comment was regarding video codec
> > Auto selecting h264 based on SIP setting is not a good idea IMHO
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Artyom Horuzhenko <akhor666@gmail.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > Usually (for example, in Linphone) echo cancellation option is
> available
> > > for every user. In my opinion it would be better to allow users to
> decide
> > > use echo cancellation or not because its efficiency depends on
> hardware.
> > >
> > >
> > > 2013/4/23 Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>
> > >
> > > > Maybe it is better to make it configurable somehow? config.xml is
> good
> > > > candidate IMHO
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 2:56 PM, Artyom Horuzhenko <
> akhor666@gmail.com
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > I suppose using h264 would be necessary only in SIP rooms, for all
> > > other
> > > > > rooms - codec which used before (h263?). It avoids any suspections
> > > about
> > > > > h264 issues and increses performance. I'm also going to implement
> > > > switching
> > > > > microphone mode in the audio/video test dialog. Is there anybody
> who
> > > > > disagree with this idea?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2013/4/23 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > > That would be great!
> > > > > > On Apr 23, 2013 5:36 AM, "Maxim Solodovnik" <
> solomax666@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > @Alexei this definitely can be done in realtime, BUT ...
:)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The setting affects Working microphone so it is impossible
to
> > > ON/OFF
> > > > it
> > > > > > > while speaking :(
> > > > > > > The only option I can see is to add dropdown control to
> > > > testSetupDialog
> > > > > > > (the one with choose camera and test recording). So we
can have
> > > > > something
> > > > > > > like:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1) default system setting (can be moved to Admin->configuration
> > to
> > > > > avoid
> > > > > > > rewriting it after each upgrade)
> > > > > > > 2) per user setting stored in LocalData (like rememberLogin
> > default
> > > > > > cam/mic
> > > > > > > etc.)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > using above scheme user can change the setting while entering
> the
> > > > room
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > "re-sync" audio/video
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What do you think?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 3:24 AM, Joseph Karwat <
> > > jkarwat@jellnet.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > We tested AEC out-of-the-box. We just installed and
ran a
> > meeting
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > OM2.1- Litle or no echo.  We then, using the exact
same
> > > > > configuration,
> > > > > > > > logged in to an OM2.0 server and ran a meeting. We
> experienced
> > > > > > > substantial
> > > > > > > > echo. We were both running a PC with Flash echo cancellation
> on
> > > but
> > > > > no
> > > > > > > > hardware echo cancelation.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also for OM2.1 Where do I set the buffer lenghth?
 Are there
> > any
> > > > > other
> > > > > > > > parameters/options I  should know about?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Joseph Karwat | CEO | 415-462-0263 | JellVideo |
> > www.jellnet.com|
> > > > > > > > JELL NETWORKS, INC.
> > > > > > > > Enterprise Video Collaboration Solutions
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Click Here to Register for your JellVideo Collaboration
> Account
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: Alexei Fedotov [mailto:alexei.fedotov@gmail.com]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 12:49 PM
> > > > > > > > To: dev@openmeetings.apache.org
> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: AEC in the new release
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Joseph, which devices show improvement? Which buffer
length
> did
> > > you
> > > > > > use?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I like the suggestion - Maxim, how is it possible
to
> configure
> > > AEC
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > realtime?
> > > > > > > > On Apr 22, 2013 11:30 PM, "Joseph Karwat" <
> jkarwat@jellnet.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > We have a test OM2.1 server installed at AWS
running
> Unbuntu
> > > > 12.04.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > We tested AEC this morning for the first time
and it did
> seem
> > > to
> > > > > make
> > > > > > > > > the audio work very well.  Little if no echo.
 We still
> need
> > to
> > > > > test
> > > > > > > > > under a wide range of scenarios, but we are encouraged
by
> the
> > > > > > > > > performance this morning.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you do make it a configurable setting. It
should be an
> > > option
> > > > > when
> > > > > > > > > setting up the room or allow the individual user
to
> > > enable/disabe
> > > > > AEC
> > > > > > > > > when in a conference room.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Making it a system-wide configuration option
will delay
> > testing
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > > adoption.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > We will be conducting further testing of AEC
over the next
> > few
> > > > days
> > > > > > > > > and will report back with our findings.  Anyone
wishing to
> > > > > > participate
> > > > > > > > > in our AEC testing is encouraged to contact me.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Joseph Karwat |415-462-0263 | JellVideo | www.jellnet.com|
> > > JELL
> > > > > > > > > NETWORKS, INC.
> > > > > > > > > Enterprise Video Collaboration Solutions
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Click Here to Register for your JellVideo Collaboration
> > Account
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: Alexei Fedotov [mailto:alexei.fedotov@gmail.com]
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 12:49 AM
> > > > > > > > > To: dev; user@openmeetings.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: AEC in the new release
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There are no answers. My point here is that we
can be 100%
> > sure
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > today AEC does not work as expected, and provides
> distinctive
> > > and
> > > > > > high
> > > > > > > > > quality echo in 100% of situations when users
use separate
> > > > dynamic
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > microphone systems.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The new thing is AEC mechanism sometimes meddles
with
> > hardware
> > > > echo
> > > > > > > > > cancellation support providing temporary sound
outages. It
> > also
> > > > > > > > > provides visible de-synchronization between sound
and video
> > > > > channels.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If someone has a different experience, please,
speak up.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So I have two ideas to speak of. 1. Disable AEC
in
> > openmeetings
> > > > > > > > > releases by default. It takes a simple configuration
change
> > to
> > > > > enable
> > > > > > > > > it. 2. Later understand when AEC really works,
and fix it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Folks, please again let me know if you disagree
and have
> > > > beneficial
> > > > > > > > > AEC experience.
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
Alexei
> Fedotov
> > /
> > > > > > Алексей
> > > > > > > > > Федотов, http://dataved.ru/
> > > > > > > > > +7 916 562 8095
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Alexei Fedotov
> > > > > > > > > <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Hello guys,
> > > > > > > > > > How AEC (acoustic echo cancellation) works
for you in the
> > new
> > > > > > > release?
> > > > > > > > > > Can anyone share usage experience?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > With best regards / с наилучшими
пожеланиями, Alexei
> > Fedotov
> > > /
> > > > > > > > > > Алексей Федотов, http://dataved.ru/
> > > > > > > > > > +7 916 562 8095
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > WBR
> > > > > > > Maxim aka solomax
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > WBR
> > > > Maxim aka solomax
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > WBR
> > Maxim aka solomax
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Sebastian Wagner
> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> http://www.webbase-design.de
> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> seba.wagner@gmail.com
>

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