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From "Joseph Karwat" <jkar...@jellnet.com>
Subject RE: AEC in the new release
Date Thu, 25 Apr 2013 15:58:01 GMT
Maxim:

I'm continuing my testing of AEC in OM 2.1.1 Revision: 1467936 Ubuntu 12.04.

Are there any system settings that affect AEC that I can change.  You mentioned a buffer length
below.

Thanks

Joseph Karwat | 415-462-0263 | JellVideo | www.jellnet.com |  
JELL NETWORKS, INC. 
Enterprise Video Collaboration Solutions

Click Here to Register for your JellVideo Collaboration Account


-----Original Message-----
From: Maxim Solodovnik [mailto:solomax666@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2013 5:33 AM
To: dev
Subject: Re: AEC in the new release

I mean more local tabs.
for example room administration: currently it is 2 screens of editable fields I propose to
add tabs to it First tab (opened by default) will contain room
name+description+type+public/private (maybe 1-2 additional parameters)
Other tabs will contain additional parameters for advanced use


On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 7:11 PM, Artyom Horuzhenko <akhor666@gmail.com>wrote:

> I thought about using tabs too. I imagine UI like tabs in a browser: 
> tab for administrtion, tab for room, tab for calendar etc.
>
>
> 2013/4/24 Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>
>
> > >> One of the concerns people have against OpenMeetings is its
> complexity.
> > >> They just want to conference and not bother around with a lot of
> > options.
> >
> > I would propose to use tabs in our screens (jquieryUI tabs with 
> > collapsible option to save space) So in any "complex" screen user 
> > will see only basic tab and will open advanced if necessary
> >
> > I can implement in in CalendarEvent and/or Room options as an example.
> > What do you think?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 3:53 PM, seba.wagner@gmail.com < 
> > seba.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > IMHO having yet another checkbox where the user can decide to 
> > > enable or disable AEC can be only an additional thing on top of a 
> > > general system
> > wide
> > > configuration.
> > >
> > > The problem with this is for example that the average user does 
> > > not
> even
> > > know what AEC means.
> > > Or what is the difference between hardware echo cancellation and
> software
> > > echo cancellation ?!
> > > So what would be the benefit for him in having a checkbox tagged
> "enabled
> > > AEC" ?
> > >
> > > One of the concerns people have against OpenMeetings is its complexity.
> > > They just want to conference and not bother around with a lot of
> options.
> > >
> > > I would also not disable the AEC feature by default as long as 
> > > there is
> > no
> > > concrete use-case where AEC (or enhancedMicro mode) leads to an issue.
> > >
> > > Same for h264. There was a discussion that included h264 a couple 
> > > of
> > weeks
> > > ago:
> > > http://markmail.org/message/fctg6eo5qf5hhcaa
> > >
> > > The consens was:
> > >  - The amount of CPU that our clients needed more was not measurable.
> > >  - There is no concrete use case where enabling or disabling h264 
> > > would improve anything I agree that having a config for the Video 
> > > codec, same as the
> Microphone
> > > Mode, would be nice.
> > > But changing any defaults now back and forth without concrete use 
> > > cases
> > and
> > > some kind of test plan does not make a lot of sense to me.
> > >
> > > So what I would propose is:
> > >  - Make Microphone and VideoCodec configurable and documentate 
> > > this
> > >  - Set up a concrete test plan and communicate that through our 
> > > mailing lists.
> > > Based on the feedback we might then discuss changing some defaults.
> > >
> > > Sebastian
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2013/4/23 Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>
> > >
> > > > My previous comment was regarding video codec Auto selecting 
> > > > h264 based on SIP setting is not a good idea IMHO
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 3:17 PM, Artyom Horuzhenko <
> akhor666@gmail.com
> > > > >wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Usually (for example, in Linphone) echo cancellation option is
> > > available
> > > > > for every user. In my opinion it would be better to allow 
> > > > > users to
> > > decide
> > > > > use echo cancellation or not because its efficiency depends on
> > > hardware.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2013/4/23 Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > > Maybe it is better to make it configurable somehow? 
> > > > > > config.xml is
> > > good
> > > > > > candidate IMHO
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 2:56 PM, Artyom Horuzhenko <
> > > akhor666@gmail.com
> > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I suppose using h264 would be necessary only in SIP rooms,

> > > > > > > for
> > all
> > > > > other
> > > > > > > rooms - codec which used before (h263?). It avoids any
> > suspections
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > h264 issues and increses performance. I'm also going to
> implement
> > > > > > switching
> > > > > > > microphone mode in the audio/video test dialog. Is there
> anybody
> > > who
> > > > > > > disagree with this idea?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2013/4/23 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That would be great!
> > > > > > > > On Apr 23, 2013 5:36 AM, "Maxim Solodovnik" <
> > > solomax666@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > @Alexei this definitely can be done in realtime,
BUT 
> > > > > > > > > ... :)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The setting affects Working microphone so it
is 
> > > > > > > > > impossible
> to
> > > > > ON/OFF
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > while speaking :(
> > > > > > > > > The only option I can see is to add dropdown
control 
> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > testSetupDialog
> > > > > > > > > (the one with choose camera and test recording).
So we 
> > > > > > > > > can
> > have
> > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > like:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > 1) default system setting (can be moved to
> > Admin->configuration
> > > > to
> > > > > > > avoid
> > > > > > > > > rewriting it after each upgrade)
> > > > > > > > > 2) per user setting stored in LocalData (like

> > > > > > > > > rememberLogin
> > > > default
> > > > > > > > cam/mic
> > > > > > > > > etc.)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > using above scheme user can change the setting
while
> entering
> > > the
> > > > > > room
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > "re-sync" audio/video
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What do you think?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 3:24 AM, Joseph Karwat
<
> > > > > jkarwat@jellnet.com>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > We tested AEC out-of-the-box. We just installed
and 
> > > > > > > > > > ran a
> > > > meeting
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > OM2.1- Litle or no echo.  We then, using
the exact 
> > > > > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > configuration,
> > > > > > > > > > logged in to an OM2.0 server and ran a meeting.
We
> > > experienced
> > > > > > > > > substantial
> > > > > > > > > > echo. We were both running a PC with Flash
echo
> > cancellation
> > > on
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > > hardware echo cancelation.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Also for OM2.1 Where do I set the buffer
lenghth?  
> > > > > > > > > > Are
> > there
> > > > any
> > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > > > > parameters/options I  should know about?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Joseph Karwat | CEO | 415-462-0263 | JellVideo
|
> > > > www.jellnet.com|
> > > > > > > > > > JELL NETWORKS, INC.
> > > > > > > > > > Enterprise Video Collaboration Solutions
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Click Here to Register for your JellVideo

> > > > > > > > > > Collaboration
> > > Account
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > From: Alexei Fedotov 
> > > > > > > > > > [mailto:alexei.fedotov@gmail.com]
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 12:49 PM
> > > > > > > > > > To: dev@openmeetings.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: AEC in the new release
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Joseph, which devices show improvement?
Which buffer
> length
> > > did
> > > > > you
> > > > > > > > use?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I like the suggestion - Maxim, how is it
possible to
> > > configure
> > > > > AEC
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > realtime?
> > > > > > > > > > On Apr 22, 2013 11:30 PM, "Joseph Karwat"
<
> > > jkarwat@jellnet.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > We have a test OM2.1 server installed
at AWS 
> > > > > > > > > > > running
> > > Unbuntu
> > > > > > 12.04.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > We tested AEC this morning for the
first time and 
> > > > > > > > > > > it
> did
> > > seem
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > make
> > > > > > > > > > > the audio work very well.  Little if
no echo.  We 
> > > > > > > > > > > still
> > > need
> > > > to
> > > > > > > test
> > > > > > > > > > > under a wide range of scenarios, but
we are 
> > > > > > > > > > > encouraged
> by
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > performance this morning.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If you do make it a configurable setting.
It 
> > > > > > > > > > > should be
> an
> > > > > option
> > > > > > > when
> > > > > > > > > > > setting up the room or allow the individual
user 
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > enable/disabe
> > > > > > > AEC
> > > > > > > > > > > when in a conference room.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Making it a system-wide configuration
option will 
> > > > > > > > > > > delay
> > > > testing
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > adoption.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > We will be conducting further testing
of AEC over 
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > next
> > > > few
> > > > > > days
> > > > > > > > > > > and will report back with our findings.
 Anyone 
> > > > > > > > > > > wishing
> > to
> > > > > > > > participate
> > > > > > > > > > > in our AEC testing is encouraged to
contact me.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Joseph Karwat |415-462-0263 | JellVideo
|
> > www.jellnet.com|
> > > > > JELL
> > > > > > > > > > > NETWORKS, INC.
> > > > > > > > > > > Enterprise Video Collaboration Solutions
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Click Here to Register for your JellVideo

> > > > > > > > > > > Collaboration
> > > > Account
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: Alexei Fedotov 
> > > > > > > > > > > [mailto:alexei.fedotov@gmail.com]
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 12:49
AM
> > > > > > > > > > > To: dev; user@openmeetings.apache.org
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: AEC in the new release
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > There are no answers. My point here
is that we can 
> > > > > > > > > > > be
> > 100%
> > > > sure
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > today AEC does not work as expected,
and provides
> > > distinctive
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > high
> > > > > > > > > > > quality echo in 100% of situations
when users use
> > separate
> > > > > > dynamic
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > microphone systems.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The new thing is AEC mechanism sometimes
meddles 
> > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > hardware
> > > > > > echo
> > > > > > > > > > > cancellation support providing temporary
sound outages.
> > It
> > > > also
> > > > > > > > > > > provides visible de-synchronization
between sound 
> > > > > > > > > > > and
> > video
> > > > > > > channels.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If someone has a different experience,
please, 
> > > > > > > > > > > speak
> up.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So I have two ideas to speak of. 1.
Disable AEC in
> > > > openmeetings
> > > > > > > > > > > releases by default. It takes a simple

> > > > > > > > > > > configuration
> > change
> > > > to
> > > > > > > enable
> > > > > > > > > > > it. 2. Later understand when AEC really
works, and 
> > > > > > > > > > > fix
> > it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Folks, please again let me know if
you disagree 
> > > > > > > > > > > and
> have
> > > > > > beneficial
> > > > > > > > > > > AEC experience.
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > With best regards / с наилучшими
пожеланиями, 
> > > > > > > > > > > Alexei
> > > Fedotov
> > > > /
> > > > > > > > Алексей
> > > > > > > > > > > Федотов, http://dataved.ru/
> > > > > > > > > > > +7 916 562 8095
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 11:11 PM, Alexei
Fedotov 
> > > > > > > > > > > <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hello guys,
> > > > > > > > > > > > How AEC (acoustic echo cancellation)
works for 
> > > > > > > > > > > > you in
> > the
> > > > new
> > > > > > > > > release?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Can anyone share usage experience?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > With best regards / с наилучшими
пожеланиями, 
> > > > > > > > > > > > Alexei
> > > > Fedotov
> > > > > /
> > > > > > > > > > > > Алексей Федотов,
http://dataved.ru/
> > > > > > > > > > > > +7 916 562 8095
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > WBR
> > > > > > > > > Maxim aka solomax
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > WBR
> > > > > > Maxim aka solomax
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > WBR
> > > > Maxim aka solomax
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sebastian Wagner
> > > https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
> > > http://www.webbase-design.de
> > > http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
> > > seba.wagner@gmail.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > WBR
> > Maxim aka solomax
> >
>



--
WBR
Maxim aka solomax


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