openmeetings-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedo...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: SWF11 components performance/stability
Date Wed, 13 Mar 2013 12:56:18 GMT
Great job, Irina!
Thanks for digging this out.
--
With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
http://dataved.ru/
+7 916 562 8095


On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Irina Arkhipets
<irina.arkhipets@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I investigated flash plugin crashes today and would like to share some
> results.
>
> First of all, crash happens both with SWF10 and SWF 11. It seems like the
> problem is reproducible with H263, H264 1.2 and H264 5.1.
>
> Actually, I haven't noticed significant CPU usage degradation for H264 in
> compare with H263 - it always was about 50-70% when I enter OpenMeetings
> room. The same is true about the memory usage.
>
> I was able to get the crash report in Mozilla, however for now don't see
> any info which can help me there.
>
> Tested environment was: Windows XP + Mozilla FireFox 19.0 + flash player
> 11.5.502.146. Tested server was demo.dataved.ru, there were two users with
> videos (1 with big window and the other with normal) in the room + me with
> normal window.
>
> For now anybody can try different cases on
> http://demo.dataved.ru/openmeetings and get own expression.
>
> Below are the links which can be tested and my today results for each of
> them:
>
> - http://demo.dataved.ru/openmeetings/?swf=main.as3.swf10.swf&junk=666 -
> SWF10 + H263. Crashed 3 times from 10.
> - http://demo.dataved.ru/openmeetings/?swf=main.as3.swf11.h263.swf&junk=666-
> SWF11 + H263. Crashed 0 times from 10.
> -
> http://demo.dataved.ru/openmeetings/?swf=main.as3.swf11.h264_1_2.swf&junk=666-
> SWF11 + H264 1.2. Crashed 2 times from 10.
> -
> http://demo.dataved.ru/openmeetings/?swf=main.as3.swf11.h264_5_1.swf&junk=666-
> SWF11 + H264 5/1/ Crashed 1 times from 10.
>
> Best regards,
> Irina.
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> that is definitely something not readable :(
>> I can see the word "static" in the generated code :) this is global
>> variables :)))
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 4:57 PM, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
>> seba.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > just for consideration,
>> > attached is the current AS3 that OpenLaszlo generates.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27836308/lzswf9.tar.gz
>> >
>> > Sebastian
>> >
>> >
>> > 2013/3/13 Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>
>> >
>> >> I thought maybe it will be simple to convert swf10 folder of our sources
>> >> + I would like "someone else" will handle it :))))
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 4:38 PM, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
>> >> seba.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Sorry but that is useless.
>> >>> The AS3 code that OpenLaszlo compiles is not human readable. It is
>> >>> generated into some tmp directory.
>> >>> You can search on your disc for a file called LZC_COMPILER_OPTIONS
>> >>> That should be into the same directory as the actual AS3 files.
>> >>>
>> >>> The thing is that there are of course some high level similarities.
>> >>> However there are also high level similarities between AS3 and HTML5.
>> For
>> >>> example an ActionScript3 "Sprite" is nearly the same as an HTML "div"
>> or
>> >>> maybe "span" but you can really translate those things just and expect
>> the
>> >>> functionality is the same.
>> >>>
>> >>> The entire notation in MXML is different, same about the script blogs.
>> >>> A script blog in openlaszlo looks like:
>> >>> var zxac = 3;
>> >>> in AS it would look like:
>> >>> var zxac:int = 3;
>> >>> No matter how you do it, you will have to go through every file, debug
>> >>> every line of code, understand the logic, convert it to MXML, test it.
>> And
>> >>> some constructs of course won't translate that easy.
>> >>> For example in Flex you can't create that simple a "global" pointer.
>> >>> Like: canvas.myattribute or parent.myattribute
>> >>> This simply won't compile. AS3 won't let you compile such pointers.
You
>> >>> need to pass the parameter into the object to access its attributes,
or
>> >>> pass the attribute inside of it.
>> >>> So a lot of the things we do when having some attribute in the canvas
>> >>> and pointing to them from various places in the app ... it simply
>> doesn't
>> >>> work in MXML.
>> >>>
>> >>> So of course it depends on to what extend you plan to build a Flex
>> >>> client. Maybe just the SWF11 app converting to MXML is an option. But
>> the
>> >>> entire SWF8 app. I don't think so. Just too complex.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sebastian
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> 2013/3/13 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>
>> >>>
>> >>>> The files appear in some temporary directory. I cannot remember
where
>> >>>> they are exactly. If you make an error when embedding action script
>> >>>> into openlaszlo (should be something on action script level, xml
>> >>>> markup would break the preprocessor itself), you get in the error
>> >>>> message an exact pointer to the file where your error is put.
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
>> >>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
>> >>>> http://dataved.ru/
>> >>>> +7 916 562 8095
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Maxim Solodovnik <
>> >>>> solomax666@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> > @Alexey we currently using flex 4.5.0, 4.6.1 to create bytecode
>> >>>> > "can be inspected/used" means autoconverted :) action script
instead
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> > openlaszlo is also good :)
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > can you please tell me how this can be inspected?
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > @Sebastian I thought we use only view/label/dataset/connection
in
>> our
>> >>>> swf10
>> >>>> > code .... all these primitives should be available in MXML.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Alexei Fedotov <
>> >>>> alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>
>> >>>> > wrote:
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> @Max AS3 means action script
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> Modern OpenLaszlo compiles into AS3, these files can be
inspected
>> and
>> >>>> >> used instead of openlaszlo files.
>> >>>> >> Then standard Adobe tools create swf bytecode from AS3.
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> --
>> >>>> >> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
>> >>>> >> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
>> >>>> >> http://dataved.ru/
>> >>>> >> +7 916 562 8095
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:18 AM, seba.wagner@gmail.com
>> >>>> >> <seba.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> >> > MXML has certainly advantages in the sense of wider
acceptance
>> and
>> >>>> >> > better
>> >>>> >> > development tools.
>> >>>> >> > But it really means to build something from scratch.
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> > Sebastian
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> > 2013/3/13 Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> >> @Alexey we currently using openlaszlo for video
(not sure what
>> do
>> >>>> you
>> >>>> >> >> mean
>> >>>> >> >> by AS3). Currently our version of video components
is built
>> using
>> >>>> >> >> flex.4.6.1 while actual version available for
download is flex
>> >>>> 4.9.1.
>> >>>> >> >> I was hoping we will have less bugs and better
performance if we
>> >>>> will
>> >>>> >> >> use
>> >>>> >> >> MXML directly for our code. But this is just a
guess.
>> >>>> >> >>
>> >>>> >> >>
>> >>>> >> >> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 2:00 PM, seba.wagner@gmail.com
<
>> >>>> >> >> seba.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> >> >>
>> >>>> >> >>> You can simply disable h264 and build to swf11.
>> >>>> >> >>> It is only about the codec not about SWF formats.
>> >>>> >> >>>
>> >>>> >> >>> I just compared and could not really find
out if there are big
>> >>>> >> >>> differences.
>> >>>> >> >>> However it is definitly good to really compare
the impacts on
>> >>>> CPU and
>> >>>> >> >>> bandwidth usage when switching the Codec for
video encoding.
>> >>>> >> >>> It seemed to me like encoding with h264 is
using a second
>> >>>> process (on
>> >>>> >> >>> OSX
>> >>>> >> >>> that process is called WindowsServer). It
might be that h264
>> >>>> encoding
>> >>>> >> >>> can
>> >>>> >> >>> use some more system ressources. However...
all just guessing
>> at
>> >>>> this
>> >>>> >> >>> point.
>> >>>> >> >>>
>> >>>> >> >>> Sebastian
>> >>>> >> >>>
>> >>>> >> >>>
>> >>>> >> >>> 2013/3/13 Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>
>> >>>> >> >>>
>> >>>> >> >>>> Maybe we can add conversion task to the
GSOC ideas? do we need
>> >>>> it?
>> >>>> >> >>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>> I don't see any problems with h264
>> >>>> >> >>>> I'm going to build
>> >>>> >> >>>> 1) SWF11 with h264 support removed
>> >>>> >> >>>> 2) SWF11 with different h264 profile
>> >>>> >> >>>> 3) SWF10
>> >>>> >> >>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>  and compare
>> >>>> >> >>>> but i'm not expecting any major differences
:(
>> >>>> >> >>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:17 PM, seba.wagner@gmail.com
<
>> >>>> >> >>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> >> >>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>> No there is no such conversion. You
have to rewrite the LZX
>> to
>> >>>> MXML
>> >>>> >> >>>>> and
>> >>>> >> >>>>> AS3 files.
>> >>>> >> >>>>> What about the Video Codec? I don't
think it makes sense to
>> >>>> start a
>> >>>> >> >>>>> RC2
>> >>>> >> >>>>> vote before this issue has been further
analyzed.
>> >>>> >> >>>>> Is there a given restriction that
needs h264?
>> >>>> >> >>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>> Sebastian
>> >>>> >> >>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>> 2013/3/13 Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>> @Sebastian, maybe you know, is
there any possibility to
>> >>>> >> >>>>>> automatically/semi-automatically
convert our swf10 sources
>> to
>> >>>> >> >>>>>> "apache flex
>> >>>> >> >>>>>> xml"? Since Openlaszlo seems to
be not actively developed
>> and
>> >>>> flex
>> >>>> >> >>>>>> is now
>> >>>> >> >>>>>> part of Apache, maybe we can benefit
from such conversion?
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:28 PM,
Maxim Solodovnik <
>> >>>> >> >>>>>> solomax666@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>> I have forwarded all missing
messages
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:25
PM, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> you wrote me without CC'ing
Irina or the list :)
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> I missed the 'reply all'
button somehow.
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> Sebastian
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> 2013/3/12 Maxim Solodovnik
<solomax666@gmail.com>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>> this one
>> >>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OPENMEETINGS-559
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>> @Irina can you describe
your problem more detailed?
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013
at 3:46 PM, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> We should simply
do some tests to measure the actual
>> >>>> video with
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> h264 and the default
Sorensen Codec.
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Then we have some
numbers.
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> What are the exact
reports for "Flash Player crashing" ?
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> 2013/3/12 Maxim
Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> I can add
switching H264 off, but I'm not sure if this
>> >>>> is the
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> problem.
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Most claims
are related to the crashing flash in
>> browser.
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Do you think
this would help?
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar
12, 2013 at 2:56 PM, seba.wagner@gmail.com<
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry
I did not meant default h323 I meant the default
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sorenson
Spark
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorenson_Spark
>> >(Sorenson
>> >>>> H.263)
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/3/12
seba.wagner@gmail.com <
>> seba.wagner@gmail.com>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> h264 simply
needs more computing time.
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> AEC
also is enabled (which needs some percentages
>> more
>> >>>> CPU
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> power
then the previous implementation).
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Switching
to later Flex SDK is surely desirable but
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> basically
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
performance is a Flash Player/VirtualMachine
>> issue
>> >>>> not a
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Flash
Compiler
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> issue.
So as long as there is no Flash Player 12 that
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> requires
a later Flex
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> SDK
it is unlikely that you will gain performance
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> advantages.
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I
think there is a hardware acceleration for playback
>> >>>> of
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> h264
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> video,
but I have really no idea about producing h264
>> >>>> in the
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> browser
in
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that
context.
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From
my point of view the main reason for using h264
>> >>>> is the
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> SIP
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> integration.
For users that don't use SIP integration
>> >>>> using
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> h264
will
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> simply
just mean an annoying CPU usage.
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The
case is different for AEC from my point of view.
>> >>>> AEC
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> brings
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> enhancement
for everybody immediately. And the more
>> of
>> >>>> CPU
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that
it uses is
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> only
3-4 % from my point of view.
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So
my preference would be to make the video codec use
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> standard
h323. To be honest: Who has ever complained
>> >>>> in the
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> last
couple of
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> years
about video quality? The discussion is almost
>> >>>> always
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> about
audio
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> delay,
audio quality, micro echo, bad microphones et
>> >>>> cetera
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> but
actually
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> never
about video quality.
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And
from what I have seen h264 also brings no
>> >>>> improvements
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> terms
of bandwidth usage.
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> h264
could be available via configuration (or to
>> >>>> enable SIP
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> integration),
but h323 should be used by default.
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/3/12
Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hello Raju, Sebastian,
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
according to
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OPENMEETINGS-559 and
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
various user reports (including mail from
>> >>>> Sebastian[1])
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Main code changes were: adding EnchancedMicrophone
>> and
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
switch
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
to h264
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
According to the Google switching to h264 can cause
>> >>>> higher
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
CPU
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
usage.
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Can this be fixed by changing H264Level?
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(currently H264Level.LEVEL_1_2 is used)
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Maybe you can us understand were
>> performance/stability
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
degradation caused by code changes? Or maybe it is
>> >>>> because
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
of Flex4.6.0?
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Can stability be improved by switching to Flex4.9.1?
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thanks in advance for your help
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
[1] http://markmail.org/message/2el63qarsjmbvfyy
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 <http://markmail.org/message/2el63qarsjmbvfyy>--
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
WBR
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Maxim aka solomax
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
Wagner
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
Wagner
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> WBR
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Maxim aka
solomax
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>> WBR
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> --
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>> --
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>> WBR
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>> --
>> >>>> >> >>>>>> WBR
>> >>>> >> >>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
>> >>>> >> >>>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>> --
>> >>>> >> >>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >>>> >> >>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >>>> >> >>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >>>> >> >>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >>>> >> >>>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com
>> >>>> >> >>>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>> --
>> >>>> >> >>>> WBR
>> >>>> >> >>>> Maxim aka solomax
>> >>>> >> >>>>
>> >>>> >> >>>
>> >>>> >> >>>
>> >>>> >> >>>
>> >>>> >> >>> --
>> >>>> >> >>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >>>> >> >>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >>>> >> >>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >>>> >> >>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >>>> >> >>> seba.wagner@gmail.com
>> >>>> >> >>>
>> >>>> >> >>
>> >>>> >> >>
>> >>>> >> >>
>> >>>> >> >> --
>> >>>> >> >> WBR
>> >>>> >> >> Maxim aka solomax
>> >>>> >> >>
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> > --
>> >>>> >> > Sebastian Wagner
>> >>>> >> > https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >>>> >> > http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >>>> >> > http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >>>> >> > seba.wagner@gmail.com
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > --
>> >>>> > WBR
>> >>>> > Maxim aka solomax
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Sebastian Wagner
>> >>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> >>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> >>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> >>> seba.wagner@gmail.com
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> WBR
>> >> Maxim aka solomax
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Sebastian Wagner
>> > https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> > http://www.webbase-design.de
>> > http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> > seba.wagner@gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> WBR
>> Maxim aka solomax
>>

Mime
View raw message