openmeetings-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From "seba.wagner@gmail.com" <seba.wag...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: SWF11 components performance/stability
Date Wed, 13 Mar 2013 09:57:35 GMT
just for consideration,
attached is the current AS3 that OpenLaszlo generates.

https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/download/attachments/27836308/lzswf9.tar.gz

Sebastian


2013/3/13 Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>

> I thought maybe it will be simple to convert swf10 folder of our sources
> + I would like "someone else" will handle it :))))
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 4:38 PM, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
> seba.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Sorry but that is useless.
>> The AS3 code that OpenLaszlo compiles is not human readable. It is
>> generated into some tmp directory.
>> You can search on your disc for a file called LZC_COMPILER_OPTIONS
>> That should be into the same directory as the actual AS3 files.
>>
>> The thing is that there are of course some high level similarities.
>> However there are also high level similarities between AS3 and HTML5. For
>> example an ActionScript3 "Sprite" is nearly the same as an HTML "div" or
>> maybe "span" but you can really translate those things just and expect the
>> functionality is the same.
>>
>> The entire notation in MXML is different, same about the script blogs.
>> A script blog in openlaszlo looks like:
>> var zxac = 3;
>> in AS it would look like:
>> var zxac:int = 3;
>> No matter how you do it, you will have to go through every file, debug
>> every line of code, understand the logic, convert it to MXML, test it. And
>> some constructs of course won't translate that easy.
>> For example in Flex you can't create that simple a "global" pointer.
>> Like: canvas.myattribute or parent.myattribute
>> This simply won't compile. AS3 won't let you compile such pointers. You
>> need to pass the parameter into the object to access its attributes, or
>> pass the attribute inside of it.
>> So a lot of the things we do when having some attribute in the canvas and
>> pointing to them from various places in the app ... it simply doesn't work
>> in MXML.
>>
>> So of course it depends on to what extend you plan to build a Flex
>> client. Maybe just the SWF11 app converting to MXML is an option. But the
>> entire SWF8 app. I don't think so. Just too complex.
>>
>> Sebastian
>>
>>
>> 2013/3/13 Alexei Fedotov <alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>
>>
>>> The files appear in some temporary directory. I cannot remember where
>>> they are exactly. If you make an error when embedding action script
>>> into openlaszlo (should be something on action script level, xml
>>> markup would break the preprocessor itself), you get in the error
>>> message an exact pointer to the file where your error is put.
>>> --
>>> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
>>> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
>>> http://dataved.ru/
>>> +7 916 562 8095
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > @Alexey we currently using flex 4.5.0, 4.6.1 to create bytecode
>>> > "can be inspected/used" means autoconverted :) action script instead of
>>> > openlaszlo is also good :)
>>> >
>>> > can you please tell me how this can be inspected?
>>> >
>>> > @Sebastian I thought we use only view/label/dataset/connection in our
>>> swf10
>>> > code .... all these primitives should be available in MXML.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Alexei Fedotov <
>>> alexei.fedotov@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> @Max AS3 means action script
>>> >>
>>> >> Modern OpenLaszlo compiles into AS3, these files can be inspected and
>>> >> used instead of openlaszlo files.
>>> >> Then standard Adobe tools create swf bytecode from AS3.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> With best regards / с наилучшими пожеланиями,
>>> >> Alexei Fedotov / Алексей Федотов,
>>> >> http://dataved.ru/
>>> >> +7 916 562 8095
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:18 AM, seba.wagner@gmail.com
>>> >> <seba.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> > MXML has certainly advantages in the sense of wider acceptance
and
>>> >> > better
>>> >> > development tools.
>>> >> > But it really means to build something from scratch.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Sebastian
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > 2013/3/13 Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> @Alexey we currently using openlaszlo for video (not sure what
do
>>> you
>>> >> >> mean
>>> >> >> by AS3). Currently our version of video components is built
using
>>> >> >> flex.4.6.1 while actual version available for download is flex
>>> 4.9.1.
>>> >> >> I was hoping we will have less bugs and better performance
if we
>>> will
>>> >> >> use
>>> >> >> MXML directly for our code. But this is just a guess.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 2:00 PM, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
>>> >> >> seba.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>> You can simply disable h264 and build to swf11.
>>> >> >>> It is only about the codec not about SWF formats.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> I just compared and could not really find out if there
are big
>>> >> >>> differences.
>>> >> >>> However it is definitly good to really compare the impacts
on CPU
>>> and
>>> >> >>> bandwidth usage when switching the Codec for video encoding.
>>> >> >>> It seemed to me like encoding with h264 is using a second
process
>>> (on
>>> >> >>> OSX
>>> >> >>> that process is called WindowsServer). It might be that
h264
>>> encoding
>>> >> >>> can
>>> >> >>> use some more system ressources. However... all just guessing
at
>>> this
>>> >> >>> point.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Sebastian
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> 2013/3/13 Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>> Maybe we can add conversion task to the GSOC ideas?
do we need
>>> it?
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> I don't see any problems with h264
>>> >> >>>> I'm going to build
>>> >> >>>> 1) SWF11 with h264 support removed
>>> >> >>>> 2) SWF11 with different h264 profile
>>> >> >>>> 3) SWF10
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>  and compare
>>> >> >>>> but i'm not expecting any major differences :(
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:17 PM, seba.wagner@gmail.com
<
>>> >> >>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>> No there is no such conversion. You have to rewrite
the LZX to
>>> MXML
>>> >> >>>>> and
>>> >> >>>>> AS3 files.
>>> >> >>>>> What about the Video Codec? I don't think it makes
sense to
>>> start a
>>> >> >>>>> RC2
>>> >> >>>>> vote before this issue has been further analyzed.
>>> >> >>>>> Is there a given restriction that needs h264?
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> Sebastian
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> 2013/3/13 Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> @Sebastian, maybe you know, is there any possibility
to
>>> >> >>>>>> automatically/semi-automatically convert our
swf10 sources to
>>> >> >>>>>> "apache flex
>>> >> >>>>>> xml"? Since Openlaszlo seems to be not actively
developed and
>>> flex
>>> >> >>>>>> is now
>>> >> >>>>>> part of Apache, maybe we can benefit from such
conversion?
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:28 PM, Maxim Solodovnik
<
>>> >> >>>>>> solomax666@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>> I have forwarded all missing messages
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 4:25 PM, seba.wagner@gmail.com
<
>>> >> >>>>>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> you wrote me without CC'ing Irina or
the list :)
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> I missed the 'reply all' button somehow.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Sebastian
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> 2013/3/12 Maxim Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>> this one
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OPENMEETINGS-559
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>> @Irina can you describe your problem
more detailed?
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 3:46 PM,
seba.wagner@gmail.com <
>>> >> >>>>>>>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> We should simply do some tests
to measure the actual video
>>> with
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> h264 and the default Sorensen
Codec.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Then we have some numbers.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> What are the exact reports
for "Flash Player crashing" ?
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> 2013/3/12 Maxim Solodovnik
<solomax666@gmail.com>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> I can add switching H264
off, but I'm not sure if this is
>>> the
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> problem.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Most claims are related
to the crashing flash in browser.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Do you think this would
help?
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at
2:56 PM, seba.wagner@gmail.com <
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry I did not meant
default h323 I meant the default
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sorenson Spark
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorenson_Spark>(Sorenson
>>> H.263)
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/3/12 seba.wagner@gmail.com
<seba.wagner@gmail.com>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> h264 simply needs more
computing time.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> AEC also is enabled
(which needs some percentages more
>>> CPU
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> power then the
previous implementation).
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Switching to later
Flex SDK is surely desirable but
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> basically
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the performance
is a Flash Player/VirtualMachine issue
>>> not a
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Flash Compiler
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> issue. So as long
as there is no Flash Player 12 that
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> requires a later
Flex
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> SDK it is unlikely
that you will gain performance
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> advantages.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I think there is
a hardware acceleration for playback of
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> h264
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> video, but I have
really no idea about producing h264
>>> in the
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> browser in
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that context.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From my point of
view the main reason for using h264 is
>>> the
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> SIP
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> integration. For
users that don't use SIP integration
>>> using
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> h264 will
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> simply just mean
an annoying CPU usage.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The case is different
for AEC from my point of view. AEC
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> brings
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> enhancement for
everybody immediately. And the more of
>>> CPU
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> that it uses is
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> only 3-4 % from
my point of view.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> So my preference
would be to make the video codec use
>>> the
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> standard h323.
To be honest: Who has ever complained in
>>> the
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> last couple of
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> years about video
quality? The discussion is almost
>>> always
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> about audio
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> delay, audio quality,
micro echo, bad microphones et
>>> cetera
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> but actually
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> never about video
quality.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And from what I
have seen h264 also brings no
>>> improvements
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> terms of bandwidth
usage.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> h264 could be available
via configuration (or to enable
>>> SIP
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> integration), but
h323 should be used by default.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2013/3/12 Maxim
Solodovnik <solomax666@gmail.com>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Raju,
Sebastian,
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> according to
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OPENMEETINGS-559and
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> various user
reports (including mail from Sebastian[1])
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Main code changes
were: adding EnchancedMicrophone and
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to h264
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> According to
the Google switching to h264 can cause
>>> higher
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> CPU
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> usage.
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can this be
fixed by changing H264Level?
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (currently
H264Level.LEVEL_1_2 is used)
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe you can
us understand were performance/stability
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> degradation
caused by code changes? Or maybe it is
>>> because
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of Flex4.6.0?
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can stability
be improved by switching to Flex4.9.1?
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance
for your help
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [1] http://markmail.org/message/2el63qarsjmbvfyy
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>  <http://markmail.org/message/2el63qarsjmbvfyy>--
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> WBR
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> --
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> WBR
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> --
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>> --
>>> >> >>>>>>>>> WBR
>>> >> >>>>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
>>> >> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>> --
>>> >> >>>>>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>>> >> >>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>>> >> >>>>>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>>> >> >>>>>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>>> >> >>>>>>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com
>>> >> >>>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>> --
>>> >> >>>>>>> WBR
>>> >> >>>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
>>> >> >>>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>> --
>>> >> >>>>>> WBR
>>> >> >>>>>> Maxim aka solomax
>>> >> >>>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>> --
>>> >> >>>>> Sebastian Wagner
>>> >> >>>>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>>> >> >>>>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>>> >> >>>>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>>> >> >>>>> seba.wagner@gmail.com
>>> >> >>>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>> --
>>> >> >>>> WBR
>>> >> >>>> Maxim aka solomax
>>> >> >>>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> --
>>> >> >>> Sebastian Wagner
>>> >> >>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>>> >> >>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>>> >> >>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>>> >> >>> seba.wagner@gmail.com
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> --
>>> >> >> WBR
>>> >> >> Maxim aka solomax
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > Sebastian Wagner
>>> >> > https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>>> >> > http://www.webbase-design.de
>>> >> > http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>>> >> > seba.wagner@gmail.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > WBR
>>> > Maxim aka solomax
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sebastian Wagner
>> https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
>> http://www.webbase-design.de
>> http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
>> seba.wagner@gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> WBR
> Maxim aka solomax
>



-- 
Sebastian Wagner
https://twitter.com/#!/dead_lock
http://www.webbase-design.de
http://www.wagner-sebastian.com
seba.wagner@gmail.com

Mime
  • Unnamed multipart/alternative (inline, None, 0 bytes)
View raw message