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From Patrick Linskey <plins...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] localized trace messages
Date Tue, 08 Jun 2010 15:19:15 GMT
Historically, we made the following choices:

1. Never emit debug-level messages, since developers often turn on all  
debug-level messages when debugging their own code. Since trace is  
finer-grained than debug, this gives developers an easy switch to show  
all their messages but not get inundated by OpenJPA's.

2. Don't bother localizing trace statements, as they're intended for  
consumption by support staff more than by end users. Of course, in the  
open-source realm, there is less of a clear distinction here.

-Patrick

-- 
Patrick Linskey
202 669 5907

On Jun 8, 2010, at 7:37, Michael Dick <michael.d.dick@gmail.com> wrote:

> Resurrecting this thread.
>
> Pinaki has recently advocated introducing a new debug logging level.  
> Adding
> a new level could be confusing - the difference between debug and  
> trace is
> not intuitively obvious. Before introducing a new construct I think  
> we need
> a compelling reason for localized trace.
>
> Thus far the main justifications are: precedent (trace has always been
> localized), and the existence of some trace messages which are user  
> facing.
>
> For the former I think there's sufficient sentiment that localizing  
> trace is
> overkill. For the latter I submit that such messages are really info  
> or
> warning messages (an example that proves me wrong might be good).
>
> -mike
>
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Donald Woods <dwoods@apache.org>  
> wrote:
>
>> I have to agree with Mike and Rick, that TRACE messages are for us  
>> (the
>> project developers) and not the end users.  That is the philosophy of
>> all the other Apache projects I'm involved with (Geronimo and Bean
>> Validation) and other projects we use in Geronimo (like Derby,  
>> OpenEJB,
>> ActiveMQ and Axis2....)
>>
>> If we start providing translated trace messages, then we'll -
>> 1) bloat the size of our jars
>> 2) probably never have fully translated trace messages, as these  
>> change
>> more often than Log messages
>> 3) will complicate the diagnosis of reported problems, as we'll  
>> have to
>> spend more of our time converting from the submitted locale to our  
>> own
>>
>> I'd have to vote -1 to providing translated TRACE messages.
>>
>>
>> -Donald
>>
>>
>> On 4/9/10 12:43 PM, Michael Dick wrote:
>>> Hi Pinaki,
>>>
>>> That's a different definition of TRACE than I'm used to. I was  
>>> under the
>>> impression that trace *is* for developers. It's hard to find a  
>>> consensus
>> on
>>> the Internet but I can point to this
>>> definition<
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracing_%28software%29#Event_logging_versus_tracing
>>> which
>>> I think sums it up.
>>>
>>> If we do go with your definition of trace I'd argue that we need a  
>>> new
>> log
>>> level which is for developers, not for users.
>>>
>>> -mike
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Pinaki Poddar <ppoddar@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> TRACE messages are *not* for the developer -- they are for the user
>> (under
>>>> duress and using them as the last resort to figure out a problem)  
>>>> and
>> they
>>>> must be localized.
>>>>
>>>> During development a developer may temporarily use whatever  
>>>> mechanics to
>>>> suit his/her style -- but once the development is complete, then
>> cleaning
>>>> the workspace is part of the work process.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> Pinaki
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>
>> http://n2.nabble.com/DISCUSS-localized-trace-messages-tp4877982p4878105.html
>>>> Sent from the OpenJPA Developers mailing list archive at  
>>>> Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>
>>

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