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From Donald Woods <dwo...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] localized trace messages
Date Tue, 08 Jun 2010 15:51:05 GMT


On 6/8/10 10:37 AM, Michael Dick wrote:
> Resurrecting this thread.
> 
> Pinaki has recently advocated introducing a new debug logging level. Adding
> a new level could be confusing - the difference between debug and trace is
> not intuitively obvious. Before introducing a new construct I think we need
> a compelling reason for localized trace.
> 
> Thus far the main justifications are: precedent (trace has always been
> localized), and the existence of some trace messages which are user facing.
> 
> For the former I think there's sufficient sentiment that localizing trace is
> overkill. For the latter I submit that such messages are really info or
> warning messages (an example that proves me wrong might be good).
> 

Agree.  If we feel a message is important enough to translate, then it
should be using either the INFO or WARN level.


> -mike
> 
> On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 9:34 AM, Donald Woods <dwoods@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> I have to agree with Mike and Rick, that TRACE messages are for us (the
>> project developers) and not the end users.  That is the philosophy of
>> all the other Apache projects I'm involved with (Geronimo and Bean
>> Validation) and other projects we use in Geronimo (like Derby, OpenEJB,
>> ActiveMQ and Axis2....)
>>
>> If we start providing translated trace messages, then we'll -
>> 1) bloat the size of our jars
>> 2) probably never have fully translated trace messages, as these change
>> more often than Log messages
>> 3) will complicate the diagnosis of reported problems, as we'll have to
>> spend more of our time converting from the submitted locale to our own
>>
>> I'd have to vote -1 to providing translated TRACE messages.
>>
>>
>> -Donald
>>
>>
>> On 4/9/10 12:43 PM, Michael Dick wrote:
>>> Hi Pinaki,
>>>
>>> That's a different definition of TRACE than I'm used to. I was under the
>>> impression that trace *is* for developers. It's hard to find a consensus
>> on
>>> the Internet but I can point to this
>>> definition<
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracing_%28software%29#Event_logging_versus_tracing
>>> which
>>> I think sums it up.
>>>
>>> If we do go with your definition of trace I'd argue that we need a new
>> log
>>> level which is for developers, not for users.
>>>
>>> -mike
>>>
>>> On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Pinaki Poddar <ppoddar@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> TRACE messages are *not* for the developer -- they are for the user
>> (under
>>>> duress and using them as the last resort to figure out a problem) and
>> they
>>>> must be localized.
>>>>
>>>> During development a developer may temporarily use whatever mechanics to
>>>> suit his/her style -- but once the development is complete, then
>> cleaning
>>>> the workspace is part of the work process.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> Pinaki
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context:
>>>>
>> http://n2.nabble.com/DISCUSS-localized-trace-messages-tp4877982p4878105.html
>>>> Sent from the OpenJPA Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>>
>>>
>>
> 

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