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From Craig L Russell <Craig.Russ...@Sun.COM>
Subject Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
Date Tue, 19 May 2009 18:45:45 GMT
Hi Larry,

On May 18, 2009, at 9:58 PM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:

> Craig Russell complained:

First, let me be clear. I'm not complaining. I'm trying to understand  
just what we need to do in our public face to be compliant with an  
Apache policy that allows Apache to promote and enforce our marks.

My questions really are just questions. They are not rhetorical or  
argumentative. Please don't read any belligerence into the questions.
>
>> You've reminded me of the trademark rules that have given most
>> engineers angina: that trademarks are not nouns but adjectives. This
>> little trick is what makes normal text look like legalese once  
>> lawyers
>> get hold of it.
>
> I'm aware of the pain that causes, and I don't want to turn Apache  
> web pages
> into legalese.
>
> The first major use of a trademark on a web page ought to be, in  
> some way, a
> combination of the trademark as an adjective modifying the  
> "official" noun.

The trouble for OpenJPA is that there's no "official" noun. "Software"  
is certainly an appropriate noun, as are "program", "library",  
"package", and "implementation". So should we choose for each project  
an official noun and be consistent with its "first use" on each web  
page?
>
> That is so you can educate your readers about your trademark and your
> product. But it needn't be in sentence form, nor even contain words  
> in their
> normal English usages or sequence. There are lots of creative ways to
> introduce trademarks to the public.
>
> So I totally approve of your "OpenJPA is Apache's implementation of  
> Sun's
> Java Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent  
> persistence of
> Java objects."

This confuses me. The use of OpenJPA here seems like a noun.
>
>
> You needn't say "OpenJPA software" since you said "OpenJPA  
> implementation".

Not exactly. It doesn't say "OpenJPA implementation is Apache's  
implementation". It would actually sound better to me to say "OpenJPA  
software is Apache's implementation."

So if it's not a noun, it would never be ok to say "OpenJPA is  
<something>". It would have to be "OpenJPA Software is <something>."
>
> They sort of mean the same thing, I think. I'd want you to be more  
> precise
> if I intended to file a trademark registration with the USPTO, but  
> for a
> common law trademark, I think that works just fine. Maybe I'd ask that
> somewhere you say "click here to download Apache OpenJPA software."

That's easy to do once we understand the rules.

> But otherwise, don't change that website.
>
> What I objected to in my previous email was the first sentence on your
> http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html page, "OpenJPA's unit  
> tests are
> written using JUnit." That sentence doesn't give anyone a clue what  
> noun the
> adjective OpenJPA modifies. Nor have I ever seen an apostrophe-s on an
> English adjective. :-)

Right, back to our noun versus adjective. The sentence doesn't make  
sense with OpenJPA as an adjective. As an adjective, it could be  
"OpenJPA unit tests", since part of the OpenJPA implementation  
consists of unit tests. But OpenJPA is not just unit tests. It's also  
a functional piece of software.

But our official documentation is full of "OpenJPA as noun" and not  
"OpenJPA as adjective". So I'm really struggling with whether it's  
just the "first use" on a page that needs to use OpenJPA Software or  
not.
>
>
> /Larry (with my English teacher hat on that I dug out of the very  
> back of my
> closet)
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 2:10 PM
>> To: lrosen@rosenlaw.com
>> Cc: 'ASF PRC Team'; dev@openjpa.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>>
>> Hi Larry,
>>
>> On May 18, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Lawrence Rosen wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> 3. Trademarks should be used as adjectives, not nouns. So the
>>> following
>>> sentence is incorrect trademark usage: "OpenJPA's unit tests are
>>> written
>>> using JUnit." Consider rewriting as "Unit tests for Apache OpenJPA
>>> persistence project software are written using the JUnit testing
>>> framework."
>>> Always assume that customers have to be taught to associate the
>>> trademark
>>> with the noun in modifies. Once they've done that in their minds,
>>> then you
>>> have a very valuable trademark.
>>>
>>> /Larry
>>>
>>
>> You've reminded me of the trademark rules that have given most
>> engineers angina: that trademarks are not nouns but adjectives. This
>> little trick is what makes normal text look like legalese once  
>> lawyers
>> get hold of it.
>>
>> Where we say "OpenJPA is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
>> Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence  
>> of
>> Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
>> and technical details on the use of OpenJPA." we would have to say,
>> instead, "OpenJPA software is Apache's implementation of Sun's Java
>> Persistence API (JPA) specification for the transparent persistence  
>> of
>> Java objects. This document provides an overview of the JPA standard
>> and technical details on the use of OpenJPA software."
>>
>> Did I get this right?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM [mailto:Craig.Russell@Sun.COM]
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:49 AM
>>>> To: ASF PRC Team
>>>> Cc: dev@openjpa.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Apache trademarks on OpenJPA web site
>>>>
>>>> Hi PRC,
>>>>
>>>> We've finished updating the OpenJPA web site master pages to  
>>>> include
>>>> Apache trademarks in an obvious but not obtrusive way.
>>>>
>>>> http://openjpa.apache.org/unit-tests.html is an example.
>>>>
>>>> Please let us know if this is in accordance with the current
>>>> trademark
>>>> notice policy.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Craig
>>>>
>>>> Craig L Russell
>>>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
>>>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>>>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Craig L Russell
>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>
>

Craig L Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!


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