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From Patrick Linskey <plins...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [OT] git and Apache's svn?
Date Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:14:11 GMT
> I am not an expert on git, so take this as an observation more than  
> fact: One big concern with git is the lack of "accountability" with  
> code changes. Once code has been pushed to a git repo, the identity  
> of the committer is lost, or at least not easily found.

Hmm... I think that git actually is pretty strong in this regard. A  
git commit includes an "author", which can include an email address.  
The commit is then identified by the SHA-1 of the commit message + the  
diff, so it's very difficult to tamper with existing commit history.

Now, there is no private key involved in that process, so clearly, I  
could claim to be clr@apache.org (git config user.email  
clr@apache.org) and create a commit that is falsely attributed to you.  
But is that the concern?

It's even possible for me to commit someone else's changes and  
preserve both the fact that I did the committing but that the other  
person did the authoring (git commit --author "Craig Russell <clr@apache.org 
 >" --signoff "Patrick Linskey <pcl@apache.org>").

> And unlike having the code attached to a JIRA, with an explicit  
> "Apache licensed contribution" there is no automatic way to  
> guarantee that a git-managed code change is actually intended as a  
> contribution.

The JIRA-based patch management system is definitely more robust from  
an opt-in standpoint. Are people suggesting that git would replace  
JIRA as well? I can definitely imagine a git workflow that could  
supplant JIRA, but I'd argue that git is sufficiently more difficult  
than JIRA that that would be raising the bar too much for contributions.

There is also a case to be made to use git for source control, or to  
support both git and svn for source control (if such a thing were  
possible).

IMO, git has a clearly higher learning curve than svn, so it's not  
clear that an organization with as many contributors as Apache would  
want to raise the bar for participation by requiring git-fu to  
participate. But certainly, for those of us that have bit the bullet  
for one reason or another, it'd be great if there were a good story  
for using git with Apache projects.

-Patrick

On Dec 9, 2008, at 10:15 AM, Craig L Russell wrote:

> There is a group inside Apache who are advocating for an official  
> git repo managed by Apache infrastructure. The discussion is  
> ongoing...
>
> I am not an expert on git, so take this as an observation more than  
> fact: One big concern with git is the lack of "accountability" with  
> code changes. Once code has been pushed to a git repo, the identity  
> of the committer is lost, or at least not easily found. And unlike  
> having the code attached to a JIRA, with an explicit "Apache  
> licensed contribution" there is no automatic way to guarantee that a  
> git-managed code change is actually intended as a contribution.
>
> The other big concern is transparency. Without a centrally-managed  
> git repo (see above) there is no way for the community to easily see  
> what is being developed where.
>
> I have no dog in this hunt. My aim is for the OpenJPA team to be as  
> productive and engaged as possible, while staying true to the spirit  
> and rules of the foundation. So for now, creating and using git-on- 
> svn is fine for individuals, but to use git project-wide needs more  
> explicit guidance from the foundation.
>
> Craig
>
> On Dec 9, 2008, at 7:58 AM, Patrick Linskey wrote:
>
>> Yeah, git is amazing. Lets you do lots of interesting things,  
>> collaboration-wise.
>>
>> That said, I imagine that we want to stay with the Apache Way for  
>> our primary source repository story, which means svn for the  
>> foreseeable future I'd imagine. I expect that we'd see a lot of  
>> benefit by moving to svn 1.5 (which has proper merge support, and  
>> thus helps a lot with branching).
>>
>> -Patrick
>>
>> On Dec 9, 2008, at 6:18 AM, Kevin Sutter wrote:
>>
>>> This sounds interesting.  It sounds like we could provide for  
>>> multiple
>>> "build levels" and only promote changes when they are really  
>>> ready.  All of
>>> this without requiring the use of sandboxes.  Or, am I reading  
>>> more into
>>> this?
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 5:08 AM, Mark Struberg <struberg@yahoo.de>  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Patrick!
>>>>
>>>> In which way do you like to access the apache svn?
>>>>
>>>> Did you already work with git?
>>>>
>>>> Do you only like to manage local branches with git (git on top of  
>>>> a svn
>>>> checkout)?
>>>>
>>>> Do you like to use the git-svn bridge for doing all the local  
>>>> management
>>>> with git?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The way I use git for Apache projects is the 'git on top'  
>>>> approach (I'll be
>>>> more verbose since I do not know what you already know):
>>>>
>>>> 1.) do a svn co
>>>> 2.) create a .gitignore file which contains /target and .svn
>>>> 3.) modify my .svnignore to contain .git and .gitignore
>>>> 4.) $> git-init
>>>> 5.) $> git-add src
>>>> 6.) $> git-status    to check if the index doesn't contain crap
>>>> 7.) $> git-commit -m"initial import from SVN"
>>>>
>>>> I subsequently do some svn update and commit them to my local git  
>>>> master
>>>> branche.
>>>> In parallel I do test branches with
>>>> $> git-checkout -b mytestbranch
>>>> see git-branch for more info
>>>>
>>>> If the changes work out, you can merge them into master and  
>>>> afterwards
>>>> perform a svn commit to the Apache repo.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Another way would be to use the git-svn bridge. pro: you'd have  
>>>> the whole
>>>> history in git (so you could do a git-blame for example) con: you  
>>>> cannot use
>>>> mvn scm (e.g. for releasing), since the maven-scm-providers-svn  
>>>> relies on
>>>> having a SVN structure locally and the maven-scm-providers-git  
>>>> relies on
>>>> having a remote git repo...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LieGrü,
>>>> strub
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- Patrick Linskey <plinskey@gmail.com> schrieb am Di, 9.12.2008:
>>>>
>>>>> Von: Patrick Linskey <plinskey@gmail.com>
>>>>> Betreff: [OT] git and Apache's svn?
>>>>> An: dev@openjpa.apache.org
>>>>> Datum: Dienstag, 9. Dezember 2008, 8:18
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone had any experience with using git with
>>>>> Apache's svn repository?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> -Patrick
>>>>>
>>>>> --Patrick Linskey
>>>>> 202 669 5907
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Patrick Linskey
>> 202 669 5907
>>
>
> Craig L Russell
> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://db.apache.org/jdo
> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>

-- 
Patrick Linskey
202 669 5907


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