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From Sam Barrett <sam.barr...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: No report?
Date Sun, 10 Jul 2016 19:07:34 GMT
Hadrian,

Yeah, really I'm just a troll. I prefer to live life mocking others for
success/progress than actually writing code myself or being productive.

While I could suggest that some "members" of this team ingest feces and
expire, I'm really not intellectual enough to command a true breadth of the
English language; I'll just continue to be lazy and use blue language.

Hey, also, what have you done since David Ash tried to resurrect this? I
see a note regarding process on weed day and a positive vote for David and
nothing else. I've been more active in communications than you, and I'm a
complete piece of shit. Maybe you and others really just wanted this to die
and were happy to subvert, stall and otherwise choke the life out of the
momentum?

If you dildos can run off one of the most talented and passionate devs I've
ever met, you REALLY should be proud of your accomplishment.

Fuck off.

Oops, I mean, enjoy this splendid day, good sir.
For the life of me, I cannot understand you point Sam. Besides throwing
some swear words that are probably intended to solicit some emotional
response it's not clear at all what you're referring to.

Is the 'colossal bit of fuckery' the way ASF works or the way the openaz
project evolved? If you're insulting your way through life I really pity
you.

That aside, David, I think you're assessment is close enough to reality.
The ASF gives ample time to all projects and podlings in particular to grow
an active, vibrant and diverse community. It's ASF's belief that strong
communities build great projects. For now the only thing that was expected
was a report. The community, unfortunately, was not able to produce that.
The question is what it the best and more productive way forward. John
suggested retirement, again. I personally would +1 that as I don't see
sufficient momentum in the project.

Now one suggestion for you. You mention the 3 categories of projects
suitable for the ASF and I believe you imply that OpenAz doesn't fit in any
of them. I believed OpenAz fits in the 3rd category *before* the incubation
proposal. I don't know if that was true or not, but if it was the
tightly-knit team disintegrated fast. Now you mention that your preference
is on the Kanban side of agile. All good. In my experience that cannot
continue forever. The project either gets traction, adoption and the
community grows (and that takes a lot of non coding effort, like
documentation, presentations online and at various events, hand-holding
early adopters;  all not the most rewarding activities for a coder) or the
community doesn't grow and coders get frustrated, feel like nobody
understands their efforts and move to other interesting things. The ASF
does not have a magic wand that makes any project successful, but we're
happy to share our experience knowledge and some time to help out. Just
something to think about.

If you feel the ASF is not for you, everybody respects that. I would
mention though that if you really care about the openaz project and hope it
will survive (and see enough value to spend your time on it) nobody
prevents from forking it and take it in whatever direction you want.

We also wish you the best!
Hadrian



On 07/10/2016 01:48 PM, Sam Barrett wrote:

> What a colossal bit of fuckery.
>
> I'm SO thankful I didn't spend much time on this.
>
> Ass-clownery 1, well-intentioned passionate developers 0.
>
> Well played, dinosaur; well played.
> On Jul 10, 2016 11:15 AM, "David Ash" <green.neon@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think the retirement talks should resume.
>>
>> What little steam I had three months ago for keeping it alive is gone.  We
>> lost momentum more quickly than we gained it.  I had quickly lost the two
>> other volunteers I brought on (within days).  And I have not managed to
>> get
>> any additional individuals interested.  Without significantly more people,
>> it's not viable.  I also don't think I ever got the commit status I had
>> applied for (or at least I never got a reply to my question regarding that
>> status).  But I also never performed any significant work that went
>> uncommitted, so I'd like to avoid that being an excuse for my own
>> shortcomings.  I feel like losing momentum and having an exceptionally
>> busy
>> schedule (even for me) was more to blame there -- I spent two weeks in
>> Japan, and have been working 16-hour days finishing a project that I will
>> be demonstrating at an MIT symposium in the near future.  Those are great
>> things for me personally, but have not been good for my involvement in
>> OpenAz.
>>
>> Further, it has become apparent that Apache is not the right kind of
>> organization for me or this project.  It seems to be a process-heavy,
>> patience-driven, slow-and-steady wins the race kind of approach geared
>> toward maximizing small amounts of work by large numbers of people across
>> the globe.  Although I recognize the value of that approach, I feel like
>> it
>> is geared more toward developing software that is either 1) In high demand
>> (and will thus have numerous volunteers); 2) Already quite mature (ready
>> for its first release on the first day of incubation); or 3) Has a small,
>> tightly-knit team largely working outside the Apache process but following
>> just enough of the rules to stay alive until the popularity catches on or
>> it has become mature enough for natural survival.
>>
>> My preferred approach is on the Kanban side of Agile: process-light,
>> informal, momentum-driven development with minimal oversight, release
>> early
>> and often, with tight feedback loops everywhere, and real-time
>> communications between a very small number of highly-dedicated developers.
>> That's the startup methodology, and I feel like it is better geared toward
>> bringing new things to market.  I can also understand and respect why it
>> might not be the best general methodology for Apache, and with their track
>> record I could hardly say they're "doing it wrong."  But I don't think
>> it's
>> for me.
>>
>> I still hope the project can somehow survive, but I won't be part of it.
>> Good luck to everyone in their projects, present and future.  I wish you
>> all success in your ventures.
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> David Ash
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 9:42 AM, John D. Ament <johndament@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> OpenAz,
>>>
>>> We previously had a vote to retire this podling, and this would have been
>>> your third month reporting monthly since that.  Your report is missing.
>>>
>>> Are we now in a situation where the retirement vote should restart?  I
>>>
>> saw
>>
>>> that there was little mailing list activity other than the board report.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>
>

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