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From Supun Kamburugamuva <supu...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Evaluate Suitable Scientific Workflow Language for Airavata.
Date Thu, 16 Oct 2014 22:43:47 GMT
Once we had an offline discussion about the Airavata Workflow language
(with Milinda, Saliya and Shameera). In that discussion one thing came out
was why we need to invent a different language when a simple library like
Python will full fill of Airavata requirements.

There are many benefits in using a Python library as the API for
controlling Airavata workflows.

1. It is a library, gives the ultimate control over the execution and it
can be simpler than any domain specific language that we can come with like
XML, JSON etc
2. Most people use python and can learn it easily than any Domain specific
language
3. You can easily create a Python library for Airavata because all the APIs
are thrift based.
4. If you design the constructs correctly you can plug an XBaya.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Supun..


On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 6:30 PM, Supun Kamburugamuva <supun06@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Shameera,
>
> Why you prefer JavaScript over a language like Python?
>
> Thanks,
> Supun..
>
> On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 6:25 PM, Shameera Rathnayaka <
> shameerainfo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ​Hi,
>>
>> First of all thanks everyone for giving valuable inputs. After doing some
>> background search and talking to different people in the University who has
>> used different workflow languages, I myself convinced that introducing an
>> another workflow language is not what actually they need. By changing
>> exiting workflow language to another will not solve problems. What they
>> asking is a easy way to construct the workflows. Indirectly what they
>> asking for a sort of API which they can use to generate the workflows and
>> run it. Correct me if i am wrong here.
>>
>> As most of above replies depict,  if we can get a simple API, as an
>> example, for a web based application, JavaScript API would be a good
>> solution, and probably JSON would be a good candidate for language, instead
>> of XML.
>>
>> Airavata community already have started to implement web base GUI. Hence
>> introducing a JSON base JavaScript API would be great help. WDYT?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Shameera.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 19, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Aleksander Slominski (NY) <
>> alekny7@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> it is not dataflow instead focused on orchestrating REST services but
>>> you may find it useful datapoint - we created worfklow service that uses
>>> natively JavaScript and JSON to describe what happens during workflow
>>> execution:
>>> https://www.ng.bluemix.net/docs/#services/workflow/index.html#coewf002
>>>
>>> HTH,
>>>
>>> Alek
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Suresh Marru <smarru@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Chris,
>>>>
>>>> Great to hear OODT community will be interested in adopting a JSON
>>>> based workflow language and potentially a web based composer as well.
>>>> Airavata previously had BPEL support initially through a home grown
>>>> implementation [1] by Alek Slominski and later through Apache ODE [2]. Also
>>>> a white paper [3] by Alek on this topic is an interesting read.
>>>>
>>>> I am of the same opinion that we should adopt something more modern as
>>>> the challenges from scientific workflows seems to be converging with the
>>>> data flow patterns in business workflows.
>>>>
>>>> It will be great if we can all compile a list of potential candidates
>>>> and hack them through.
>>>>
>>>> Suresh
>>>> [1] -
>>>> http://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007%2F978-1-84628-757-2_14#page-1
>>>> [2] -
>>>> http://www.academia.edu/1485773/Experience_with_adapting_a_WS-BPEL_runtime_for_eScience_workflows
>>>> [3] -
>>>> http://www.computer.org/csdl/proceedings/services/2010/4129/00/4129a326.pdf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sep 18, 2014, at 1:15 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) <
>>>> chris.a.mattmann@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > Hi Guys,
>>>> >
>>>> > I've been interested in this too - we don't per have a specific
>>>> > OODT workflow language, but we specific workflows using XML, and
>>>> > other configuration (we are also thinking of moving to JSON for
>>>> > this).
>>>> >
>>>> > In the past I've also looked at YAWL and BPEL - both seem complex
>>>> > to me.
>>>> >
>>>> > I wonder at the end of the day if we should adopt something more
>>>> > modern like PIG or some other data flow type of language (PIG
>>>> > is really neat).
>>>> >
>>>> > Cheers,
>>>> > Chris
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>> > Chris Mattmann, Ph.D.
>>>> > Chief Architect
>>>> > Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398)
>>>> > NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA
>>>> > Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527
>>>> > Email: chris.a.mattmann@nasa.gov
>>>> > WWW:  http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/
>>>> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>> > Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department
>>>> > University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA
>>>> > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>> > From: Shameera Rathnayaka <shameerainfo@gmail.com>
>>>> > Reply-To: "architecture@airavata.apache.org"
>>>> > <architecture@airavata.apache.org>
>>>> > Date: Thursday, September 18, 2014 8:26 AM
>>>> > To: "architecture@airavata.apache.org" <
>>>> architecture@airavata.apache.org>,
>>>> > dev <dev@airavata.apache.org>
>>>> > Subject: Evaluate Suitable Scientific Workflow Language for Airavata.
>>>> >
>>>> >> Hi All,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> As we all know Airavata has its own workflow language call XWF.
When
>>>> XWF
>>>> >> was introduced, main focus points are interoperability and
>>>> convertibility.
>>>> >> But with years of experience it is convinced that above requirements
>>>> are
>>>> >> not really useful when we come to real world use cases. And XWF
is
>>>> XML
>>>> >> based bulky language where we attache WSDLs and Workflow image it
>>>> self.
>>>> >> But
>>>> >> with the recent changes WSDL part is being removed from XWF.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It is worth to evaluate handy Scientific workflow languages in
>>>> industry
>>>> >> and
>>>> >> find out pros and cons, at the end of this evaluation we need to
>>>> come up
>>>> >> with idea how we should improve Airavata workflow language, either
>>>> we can
>>>> >> improve existing XWF language, totally change to a new language
>>>> available
>>>> >> in industry or write a new light weight language. Basic requirements
>>>> that
>>>> >> we expect from new improvement are, high usability, flexible, light
>>>> weight
>>>> >> and real time monitoring support. As you can see above requirements
>>>> are
>>>> >> not
>>>> >> direct comes with workflow languages but we need workflow language
>>>> which
>>>> >> help to support above requirements.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> After reading few papers and googling, initially i have come up
with
>>>> >> following three existing languages,
>>>> >> 1. YAWL <http://www.yawlfoundation.org/>
>>>> >> 2. WS-BPEL
>>>> >> ​3. SIDL
>>>> >> <http://computation.llnl.gov/casc/components/index.html#page=home>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> In my opinion SIDL is more familiar with scientific domain,
>>>> Radical-SAGA
>>>> >> also uses slightly modified version of SIDL. Other than above three
>>>> >> languages we can come up with simple workflow language base on
>>>> json(or
>>>> >> yaml) which support all our requirements for some extends.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It would be grate if I can get more input regarding the $Subject
>>>> form the
>>>> >> airavata community. You all are more than welcome to provide any
>>>> type of
>>>> >> suggestions.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks,
>>>> >> Shameera.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ​
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Best Regards,
>>>> >> Shameera Rathnayaka.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> email: shameera AT apache.org , shameerainfo AT gmail.com
>>>> >> Blog : http://shameerarathnayaka.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> The best way to predict the future is to invent it - Alan Kay
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards,
>> Shameera Rathnayaka.
>>
>> email: shameera AT apache.org , shameerainfo AT gmail.com
>> Blog : http://shameerarathnayaka.blogspot.com/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Supun Kamburugamuva
> Member, Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org
> E-mail: supun06@gmail.com;  Mobile: +1 812 369 6762
> Blog: http://supunk.blogspot.com
>
>


-- 
Supun Kamburugamuva
Member, Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org
E-mail: supun06@gmail.com;  Mobile: +1 812 369 6762
Blog: http://supunk.blogspot.com

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