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From Michael Brohl <michael.br...@ecomify.de>
Subject Re: Fwd: Unsubscribe footer
Date Fri, 07 Jun 2019 12:12:32 GMT
+1 for Taher's statement.

The Apache way is about community, discussion and consensus.

Not caring about the project's community opinion but simply forcing 
through own ideas or acting on behalf of the project without any 
legitimation is exactly the opposite.

Regards,

Michael


Am 07.06.19 um 13:48 schrieb Pierre Smits:
> To keep everyone interested in the loop.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> From: Taher Alkhateeb <slidingfilaments@gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 13:44
> Subject: Re: Unsubscribe footer
> To: Pierre Smits <pierresmits@apache.org>
>
>
> Ignoring and disregarding community is neither an "Apache Way" nor "morally
> right". When a community opposes something that someone did and their reply
> is "I had an itch" it sends a message: I don't care what you think and I'm
> not wrong.
>
> Typical behavior, I'm not surprised.
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM Pierre Smits <pierresmits@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> First of all: IANAL, and for those who don't know what that means (or don't
>> do acronyms): I Am Not A Lawyer!
>>
>> That being said, the question has been raised and needs to be answered:
>> Why?
>>
>> The answer to that question is simple when having the Apache Way and its
>> vernacular in mind:
>>
>> I experienced an itch, and, per good old Apache custom, I scratched it.
>>
>>
>> I acted not only with the various anti-spam legislations in mind ([1] may
>> provide a good starting point).
>>
>> Some here may see it ethically wrong, but it felt morally right.
>>
>> [1]
>>
>> https://litmus.com/blog/the-ultimate-guide-to-international-email-law-infographic
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> *Apache Trafodion <https://trafodion.apache.org>, Vice President*
>> *Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
>> Apache Incubator <https://incubator.apache.org>, committer
>> *Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org>, contributor (without privileges)
>> since 2008*
>> Apache Steve <https://steve.apache.org>, committer
>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 2:23 PM Michael Brohl <michael.brohl@ecomify.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks everyone,
>>>
>>> the footers are removed by Infra on my request (with apologies) with
>>> reference to this discussion (see [1]).
>>>
>>> @Pierre: do you want to tell us why you think it's ok to act
>>> independently of any community consensus or even discussion?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
>>>
>>> Am 06.06.19 um 06:37 schrieb Swapnil M Mane:
>>>> +1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> - Best Regards,
>>>> Swapnil M Mane
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 5:58 PM Taher Alkhateeb <
>>> slidingfilaments@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would recommend removing all footers from all emails. It's not worth
>>> the
>>>>> extra noise for the rare occasions of some individuals not wanting to
>>>>> unsubscribe.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would also recommend that future actions with infra to be taken by
a
>>> PMC
>>>>> member (after community approval) since they have access to necessary
>>>>> resources and are hence best fit to guide infra on the needs of the
>>>>> project.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 11:09 AM Michael Brohl <michael.brohl@ecomify.de
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've already informed Infra about this step taken without approvement
>>>>>> from the community, see [1]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Should I ask them to remove the footers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 03.06.19 um 15:12 schrieb Michael Brohl:
>>>>>>> I don't think that we need a technical enforcement, community
code
>> of
>>>>>>> conduct should be enough.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't see a problem with a longer signature from newcomers
here
>> and
>>>>>>> there, but those who participate more often should be able to
>> create a
>>>>>>> shot signature which does not pollute the mail threads.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Michael
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 03.06.19 um 13:11 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But I can't see a way to enforce that. Apart maybe asking
infra,
>> and
>>>>>>>> even then not sure it makes sense for "external writers"
who have
>>>>>>>> those kinds of disclaimer messages at bottom
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Le 03/06/2019 à 12:36, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>>>> Good question, Taher.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This was done without any envolvement of others. I think
we should
>>>>>>>>> have consensus before taking any action towards infra.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional
>>>>>>>>> signatures. In the contrary, I would like to see them
reduced to 1
>>>>>>>>> or two lines to make them more readable.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Some bad example with a content/noise ratio of 1:7 lines
can be
>> seen
>>>>>>>>> below...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Am 03.06.19 um 12:24 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>>>>>>>>>> Why was this done without community agreement first?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:59 AM Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>> <pierresmits@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail
to dev@ofbiz.a.o
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>


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