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From Pierre Smits <pierresm...@apache.org>
Subject Fwd: Unsubscribe footer
Date Fri, 07 Jun 2019 11:48:03 GMT
To keep everyone interested in the loop.

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Taher Alkhateeb <slidingfilaments@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 13:44
Subject: Re: Unsubscribe footer
To: Pierre Smits <pierresmits@apache.org>


Ignoring and disregarding community is neither an "Apache Way" nor "morally
right". When a community opposes something that someone did and their reply
is "I had an itch" it sends a message: I don't care what you think and I'm
not wrong.

Typical behavior, I'm not surprised.

On Fri, Jun 7, 2019, 12:44 PM Pierre Smits <pierresmits@apache.org> wrote:

> First of all: IANAL, and for those who don't know what that means (or don't
> do acronyms): I Am Not A Lawyer!
>
> That being said, the question has been raised and needs to be answered:
> Why?
>
> The answer to that question is simple when having the Apache Way and its
> vernacular in mind:
>
> I experienced an itch, and, per good old Apache custom, I scratched it.
>
>
> I acted not only with the various anti-spam legislations in mind ([1] may
> provide a good starting point).
>
> Some here may see it ethically wrong, but it felt morally right.
>
> [1]
>
> https://litmus.com/blog/the-ultimate-guide-to-international-email-law-infographic
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> *Apache Trafodion <https://trafodion.apache.org>, Vice President*
> *Apache Directory <https://directory.apache.org>, PMC Member*
> Apache Incubator <https://incubator.apache.org>, committer
> *Apache OFBiz <https://ofbiz.apache.org>, contributor (without privileges)
> since 2008*
> Apache Steve <https://steve.apache.org>, committer


>
>
> On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 2:23 PM Michael Brohl <michael.brohl@ecomify.de>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks everyone,
> >
> > the footers are removed by Infra on my request (with apologies) with
> > reference to this discussion (see [1]).
> >
> > @Pierre: do you want to tell us why you think it's ok to act
> > independently of any community consensus or even discussion?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
> >
> > Am 06.06.19 um 06:37 schrieb Swapnil M Mane:
> > > +1
> > >
> > >
> > > - Best Regards,
> > > Swapnil M Mane
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 5:58 PM Taher Alkhateeb <
> > slidingfilaments@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I would recommend removing all footers from all emails. It's not worth
> > the
> > >> extra noise for the rare occasions of some individuals not wanting to
> > >> unsubscribe.
> > >>
> > >> I would also recommend that future actions with infra to be taken by a
> > PMC
> > >> member (after community approval) since they have access to necessary
> > >> resources and are hence best fit to guide infra on the needs of the
> > >> project.
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Jun 5, 2019, 11:09 AM Michael Brohl <michael.brohl@ecomify.de
> >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Hi all,
> > >>>
> > >>> I've already informed Infra about this step taken without approvement
> > >>> from the community, see [1]
> > >>>
> > >>> Should I ask them to remove the footers?
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>>
> > >>> Michael
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18553
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Am 03.06.19 um 15:12 schrieb Michael Brohl:
> > >>>> I don't think that we need a technical enforcement, community code
> of
> > >>>> conduct should be enough.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I don't see a problem with a longer signature from newcomers here
> and
> > >>>> there, but those who participate more often should be able to
> create a
> > >>>> shot signature which does not pollute the mail threads.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Michael
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Am 03.06.19 um 13:11 schrieb Jacques Le Roux:
> > >>>>> +1
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> But I can't see a way to enforce that. Apart maybe asking infra,
> and
> > >>>>> even then not sure it makes sense for "external writers" who
have
> > >>>>> those kinds of disclaimer messages at bottom
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Jacques
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Le 03/06/2019 à 12:36, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> > >>>>>> Good question, Taher.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> This was done without any envolvement of others. I think
we should
> > >>>>>> have consensus before taking any action towards infra.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Personally, I am not in favor of having another/additional
> > >>>>>> signatures. In the contrary, I would like to see them reduced
to 1
> > >>>>>> or two lines to make them more readable.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Some bad example with a content/noise ratio of 1:7 lines
can be
> seen
> > >>>>>> below...
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Regards,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Michael Brohl
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> ecomify GmbH - www.ecomify.de
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Am 03.06.19 um 12:24 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
> > >>>>>>> Why was this done without community agreement first?
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 8:59 AM Pierre Smits
> > >>>>>>> <pierresmits@apache.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> The unsubscribe footer is now in play for mail
to dev@ofbiz.a.o
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Best regards,
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Pierre Smits
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>
> >
> >
>
-- 
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