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From Mike <mz4whee...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [ANNOUNCE] Directions to limit excessive or unfair marketing messages in the OFBiz mailing lists
Date Mon, 19 Dec 2016 17:38:46 GMT
As a user, I appreciate information or even marketing emails related to
ofbiz.  If not here, then where?

For instance, I appreciate it when bigfish announces a new version for
download [here], and I also appreciate it when Pierre posts new modules.
What is the big deal?  The developers have ANOTHER email list, which I
don't subscribe (because I don't care about it), so, yes, posting ads to
THAT small audience is not appropriate.

Let's lighten up... Please.

> I think nobody accused you to critisise OFBiz

I believe this is all about Pierre.  I think the stuff HE is doing with
ofbiz is fantastic and much appreciated (from my viewpoint).

On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 6:29 AM, Pierre Smits <pierre.smits@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Jacques,
>
> Thank you for expressing a perception.
>
> If that were so I guess the punishment described in the announcement would
> have been effected.
>
> But given that the statement is interpretable in many ways, I just thought
> to hedge my bets.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Pierre Smits
>
> ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> OFBiz based solutions & services
>
> OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
>
> On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi Pierre,
> >
> > I think nobody accused you to critisise OFBiz
> >
> > Jacques
> >
> >
> >
> > Le 18/12/2016 à 14:39, Pierre Smits a écrit :
> >
> >> First of all: I am NOT critisizing OFBIZ!
> >>
> >> So I beg the 'judges' to see this in light of a quest for clarity. A
> >> clarity that will benefit everybody contributing in this great ASF
> >> project,
> >> as the announcement lacks various references.
> >>
> >> The announcement talks about the image of the project. But what is that
> >> image? Is that the image expressed in viewpoints from various PMC
> members?
> >> Or from outsiders? Is there a plan/policy to improve that image (if that
> >> is
> >> indeed necessary)?
> >>
> >> The statement talks about 'over the past few weeks'. Does this mean that
> >> individuals engaging in unfair marketing before said past few weeks are
> >> not
> >> treated in the same way as the individuals of the past few weeks? And
> are
> >> the unfair marketing messages from the individuals before the past few
> >> weeks regarded as not distracting our community and not detrimental to
> the
> >> project's image?
> >> This simply boils down to will this project law be applied from a moment
> >> in
> >> the future and be applied to future actions, or will it be applied to
> only
> >> actions from individuals in the past few weeks (which is very lucid) or
> >> also to all actions from all individuals since the inception of this
> >> project?
> >>
> >> I haven't seen anything in the past few weeks that could be held against
> >> an
> >> explicit OFBIZ law applicable at that moment in time. Over the various
> >> years of the existence of this project we all have seen various
> viewpoints
> >> expressed by individuals in the various public mailing lists about how
> >> they
> >> feel about the subject brought before us and how they feel about the
> >> individuals who violated against that viewpoint. But never have we seen
> >> something that resembled any kind of consensus resulting in an action
> plan
> >> and resulting in a clear ruleset.
> >>
> >> In the first sentence there is talk about criticising OFBiz? What does
> >> that
> >> entail. Is saying that there is something wrong in the code base
> >> criticising OFBiz? Is responding with a different viewpoint to the
> posting
> >> of another contributor criticising OFBiz? What are the boundaries where
> >> the
> >> expressed viewpoint goes from an effort to improve OFBiz to something
> that
> >> is 'distracting our community and detrimental to the project's image'?
> >>
> >> In the last segment of the announcement the term 'users' is brought
> before
> >> us? It seems to me that this term is to vague without further
> description.
> >> Are we talking about OFBiz users, users of products of Service Providers
> >> that provide OFBiz related services, readers of mailing list postings,
> or
> >> what?
> >>
> >> The last segment also talks about a punishment for repeat violators of
> the
> >> 3rd Party Marketing directive stated in [1]. Where will the arbitrage
> >> regarding this take place? Which organisational body will do the
> >> prosecuting? And which organisational body will do the judging and
> >> execution of judgement? How do we ensure impartial judging? How do we
> >> ensure transparency? And how do we register complaints, transcripts of
> the
> >> arbitrages and judgings, in order to ensure that every community member
> >> can
> >> learn from it and does not walk in wrong directions?
> >>
> >> In the last segment the punishment is 'removal from the mailing lists of
> >> the project'. How long will this punishment be enforced? Is this a life
> >> sentence, or is there a limitation to this. How do we ensure that the
> >> punishment fits the crime?
> >>
> >> Does this mean that if a PMC Member violates against the directives he
> >> will
> >> remain a PMC Member even though he is removed from the mailing lists?
> >>
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >> Pierre Smits
> >>
> >> ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
> >> OFBiz based solutions & services
> >>
> >> OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
> >> http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
> >>
> >> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <jacopoc@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Over the past weeks a few individuals have posted several messages
> >>> sponsoring their company's products/services/initiatives and, at the
> same
> >>> time, criticized OFBiz and interfered with several threads in which
> OFBiz
> >>> related topics were discussed.These unfair marketing messages are
> >>> distracting for our community and detrimental to the project's image.
> >>>
> >>> In order to cope with this behavior the OFBiz PMC has published some
> >>> directions to govern how third parties can announce their
> >>> products/services/initiatives on the OFBiz user list:
> >>>
> >>> http://ofbiz.apache.org/mailing-lists.html#3rd-party-marketing
> >>>
> >>> Please consider that users repeatedly violating these directions will
> be
> >>> unsubscribed from the OFBiz lists.
> >>>
> >>> The OFBiz PMC
> >>>
> >>>
> >
>

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