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From Pierre Smits <pierre.sm...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [ANNOUNCE] Directions to limit excessive or unfair marketing messages in the OFBiz mailing lists
Date Sun, 18 Dec 2016 13:39:16 GMT
First of all: I am NOT critisizing OFBIZ!

So I beg the 'judges' to see this in light of a quest for clarity. A
clarity that will benefit everybody contributing in this great ASF project,
as the announcement lacks various references.

The announcement talks about the image of the project. But what is that
image? Is that the image expressed in viewpoints from various PMC members?
Or from outsiders? Is there a plan/policy to improve that image (if that is
indeed necessary)?

The statement talks about 'over the past few weeks'. Does this mean that
individuals engaging in unfair marketing before said past few weeks are not
treated in the same way as the individuals of the past few weeks? And are
the unfair marketing messages from the individuals before the past few
weeks regarded as not distracting our community and not detrimental to the
project's image?
This simply boils down to will this project law be applied from a moment in
the future and be applied to future actions, or will it be applied to only
actions from individuals in the past few weeks (which is very lucid) or
also to all actions from all individuals since the inception of this

I haven't seen anything in the past few weeks that could be held against an
explicit OFBIZ law applicable at that moment in time. Over the various
years of the existence of this project we all have seen various viewpoints
expressed by individuals in the various public mailing lists about how they
feel about the subject brought before us and how they feel about the
individuals who violated against that viewpoint. But never have we seen
something that resembled any kind of consensus resulting in an action plan
and resulting in a clear ruleset.

In the first sentence there is talk about criticising OFBiz? What does that
entail. Is saying that there is something wrong in the code base
criticising OFBiz? Is responding with a different viewpoint to the posting
of another contributor criticising OFBiz? What are the boundaries where the
expressed viewpoint goes from an effort to improve OFBiz to something that
is 'distracting our community and detrimental to the project's image'?

In the last segment of the announcement the term 'users' is brought before
us? It seems to me that this term is to vague without further description.
Are we talking about OFBiz users, users of products of Service Providers
that provide OFBiz related services, readers of mailing list postings, or

The last segment also talks about a punishment for repeat violators of the
3rd Party Marketing directive stated in [1]. Where will the arbitrage
regarding this take place? Which organisational body will do the
prosecuting? And which organisational body will do the judging and
execution of judgement? How do we ensure impartial judging? How do we
ensure transparency? And how do we register complaints, transcripts of the
arbitrages and judgings, in order to ensure that every community member can
learn from it and does not walk in wrong directions?

In the last segment the punishment is 'removal from the mailing lists of
the project'. How long will this punishment be enforced? Is this a life
sentence, or is there a limitation to this. How do we ensure that the
punishment fits the crime?

Does this mean that if a PMC Member violates against the directives he will
remain a PMC Member even though he is removed from the mailing lists?

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
OFBiz based solutions & services

OFBiz Extensions Marketplace

On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <jacopoc@apache.org>

> Over the past weeks a few individuals have posted several messages
> sponsoring their company's products/services/initiatives and, at the same
> time, criticized OFBiz and interfered with several threads in which OFBiz
> related topics were discussed.These unfair marketing messages are
> distracting for our community and detrimental to the project's image.
> In order to cope with this behavior the OFBiz PMC has published some
> directions to govern how third parties can announce their
> products/services/initiatives on the OFBiz user list:
> http://ofbiz.apache.org/mailing-lists.html#3rd-party-marketing
> Please consider that users repeatedly violating these directions will be
> unsubscribed from the OFBiz lists.
> The OFBiz PMC

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