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From Pierre Smits <pierre.sm...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [ANNOUNCE] Directions to limit excessive or unfair marketing messages in the OFBiz mailing lists
Date Sun, 18 Dec 2016 14:29:09 GMT
Hi Jacques,

Thank you for expressing a perception.

If that were so I guess the punishment described in the announcement would
have been effected.

But given that the statement is interpretable in many ways, I just thought
to hedge my bets.

Best regards,

Pierre Smits

ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
OFBiz based solutions & services

OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/

On Sun, Dec 18, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:

> Hi Pierre,
>
> I think nobody accused you to critisise OFBiz
>
> Jacques
>
>
>
> Le 18/12/2016 à 14:39, Pierre Smits a écrit :
>
>> First of all: I am NOT critisizing OFBIZ!
>>
>> So I beg the 'judges' to see this in light of a quest for clarity. A
>> clarity that will benefit everybody contributing in this great ASF
>> project,
>> as the announcement lacks various references.
>>
>> The announcement talks about the image of the project. But what is that
>> image? Is that the image expressed in viewpoints from various PMC members?
>> Or from outsiders? Is there a plan/policy to improve that image (if that
>> is
>> indeed necessary)?
>>
>> The statement talks about 'over the past few weeks'. Does this mean that
>> individuals engaging in unfair marketing before said past few weeks are
>> not
>> treated in the same way as the individuals of the past few weeks? And are
>> the unfair marketing messages from the individuals before the past few
>> weeks regarded as not distracting our community and not detrimental to the
>> project's image?
>> This simply boils down to will this project law be applied from a moment
>> in
>> the future and be applied to future actions, or will it be applied to only
>> actions from individuals in the past few weeks (which is very lucid) or
>> also to all actions from all individuals since the inception of this
>> project?
>>
>> I haven't seen anything in the past few weeks that could be held against
>> an
>> explicit OFBIZ law applicable at that moment in time. Over the various
>> years of the existence of this project we all have seen various viewpoints
>> expressed by individuals in the various public mailing lists about how
>> they
>> feel about the subject brought before us and how they feel about the
>> individuals who violated against that viewpoint. But never have we seen
>> something that resembled any kind of consensus resulting in an action plan
>> and resulting in a clear ruleset.
>>
>> In the first sentence there is talk about criticising OFBiz? What does
>> that
>> entail. Is saying that there is something wrong in the code base
>> criticising OFBiz? Is responding with a different viewpoint to the posting
>> of another contributor criticising OFBiz? What are the boundaries where
>> the
>> expressed viewpoint goes from an effort to improve OFBiz to something that
>> is 'distracting our community and detrimental to the project's image'?
>>
>> In the last segment of the announcement the term 'users' is brought before
>> us? It seems to me that this term is to vague without further description.
>> Are we talking about OFBiz users, users of products of Service Providers
>> that provide OFBiz related services, readers of mailing list postings, or
>> what?
>>
>> The last segment also talks about a punishment for repeat violators of the
>> 3rd Party Marketing directive stated in [1]. Where will the arbitrage
>> regarding this take place? Which organisational body will do the
>> prosecuting? And which organisational body will do the judging and
>> execution of judgement? How do we ensure impartial judging? How do we
>> ensure transparency? And how do we register complaints, transcripts of the
>> arbitrages and judgings, in order to ensure that every community member
>> can
>> learn from it and does not walk in wrong directions?
>>
>> In the last segment the punishment is 'removal from the mailing lists of
>> the project'. How long will this punishment be enforced? Is this a life
>> sentence, or is there a limitation to this. How do we ensure that the
>> punishment fits the crime?
>>
>> Does this mean that if a PMC Member violates against the directives he
>> will
>> remain a PMC Member even though he is removed from the mailing lists?
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Pierre Smits
>>
>> ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
>> OFBiz based solutions & services
>>
>> OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
>> http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 at 9:14 AM, Jacopo Cappellato <jacopoc@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Over the past weeks a few individuals have posted several messages
>>> sponsoring their company's products/services/initiatives and, at the same
>>> time, criticized OFBiz and interfered with several threads in which OFBiz
>>> related topics were discussed.These unfair marketing messages are
>>> distracting for our community and detrimental to the project's image.
>>>
>>> In order to cope with this behavior the OFBiz PMC has published some
>>> directions to govern how third parties can announce their
>>> products/services/initiatives on the OFBiz user list:
>>>
>>> http://ofbiz.apache.org/mailing-lists.html#3rd-party-marketing
>>>
>>> Please consider that users repeatedly violating these directions will be
>>> unsubscribed from the OFBiz lists.
>>>
>>> The OFBiz PMC
>>>
>>>
>

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