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From Ryan Foster <cont...@ryanlfoster.com>
Subject Re: What happeded to the real flatgrey theme?
Date Fri, 21 Jan 2011 19:54:59 GMT
Really Ruth? Really?  That is absolutely ridiculous.  I am not a committer or a PMC member.
 I am an "outsider" individual contributor with an active interest in moving the project forward.
 There is not a single committed line of code in the whole framework with my name directly
attached to it, but I yet over the years I have still managed to make some key contributions
to the project through patches, discussions, collaborations, design etc. such as the BizznessTime
theme, the redesign of the public facing website, one page checkout, the Dropping Crumbs theme,
the Flat Grey theme... my list is pretty long.

So instead in being abrasive and disrespectful, why don't you try doing what I do.  Treat
the other members of this community with respect, communicate frankly and openly, and accept
feedback, criticism and collaboration without getting defensive and insulting people.  I consider
people like Jacques, Adrian, Bruno, Anil, and Jacopo my friends and colleagues and I seem
to have no problem at all getting them to listen to me.
Ryan L. Foster

On Jan 21, 2011, at 11:41 AM, Ruth Hoffman wrote:

> Ryan:
> Get real. Not a single commiter (with the exception of Jacques and BJ - who isn't a commiter
- I don't think)  listens to anyone from the outside.
> Personally, I stand by my other comment: "You guys don't have a clue".
> Here's another saying that I find useful: "If its not broke, don't fix it". That means
that just because something is 10 years old, it is not necessarily obsolete.
> Best Regards,
> Ruth
> On 1/21/11 4:33 AM, Ryan Foster wrote:
>> While I appreciate the spirited debate, where were these voices over two weeks ago
when Adrian and I can began working on refreshing the theme (and that is what it was, not
a redesign, not a new theme, not a complete overhaul.  We changed the header and footer, and
made a few CSS changes - that's it).  This wasn't done in a vacuum and it wasn't done without
discussion and debate.  We didn't get together in some secret back-room deal and decide "Hey
let's get rid of Flat Grey and piss everyone off".
>> Adrian proposed updating the theme to the mailing list back on the 29th of December,
asked for feedback, suggestions and participation, and we went to work.  if you ask me, 24
days is a really big "vacuum" for a couple of CSS changes.  Also, if you look at the JIRA
issue https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-4092, there were 9 screenshots and 8 separate
patches posted between the 4th and the 14th of January.  Anyone could have grabbed those and
monitored the progress.
>> I agree that there should be backwards compatibility, I agree that there should stability,
but for heaven's sake, it's just a theme.  Simply blindly following a backwards compatibility
mantra gives you outdated, useless software that was cutting edge 10 years ago, but is now
the butt of developer jokes... I'm looking at you IE6.
>> Ryan L. Foster
>> 801.671.0769
>> contact@ryanlfoster.com
>> ryanlfoster.com
>> On Jan 20, 2011, at 8:38 PM, Ruth Hoffman wrote:
>>> Yeah you do...live in a vacuum. IMHO and experience the PMC does live in a vacuum.
As the saying goes...you guys "don't have a clue".
>>> Just my 2 cents.
>>> Ruth
>>> On 1/20/11 9:56 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>>> That's not true. Every change is discussed and debated.
>>>> The OFBiz developers and the PMC don't live in a vacuum - they have production
systems to maintain. It is silly to think they would not consider those production systems
when proposing changes.
>>>> -Adrian
>>>> --- On Thu, 1/20/11, BJ Freeman<bjfree@free-man.net>   wrote:
>>>>> you will find that the ofbiz
>>>>> developer group first priority is to change
>>>>> before considering the effect on production systemm using
>>>>> offbiz.
>>>>> something I lobby against, but has little effect.
>>>>> so I have a system to accomplish this regardless of what
>>>>> they do.
>>>>> =========================
>>>>> BJ Freeman
>>>>> Strategic Power Office with Supplier Automation
>>>>> <http://www.businessesnetwork.com/automation/viewforum.php?f=52>
>>>>> Specialtymarket.com<http://www.specialtymarket.com/>
>>>>> Systems Integrator-- Glad to Assist
>>>>> Chat  Y! messenger: bjfr33man
>>>>> Mike sent the following on 1/20/2011 3:38 PM:
>>>>>> But why delete it?  Alot of folks learned ofbiz
>>>>> on flatgrey, and their
>>>>>> employees are used to it.  At least keep it
>>>>> around as flatgrey_old.
>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Adrian Crum<adrianc@hlmksw.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> That theme was starting to look old, so the
>>>>> developer community decided to
>>>>>>> update it.
>>>>>>> If you prefer the old version of the theme, you
>>>>> are welcome to replace the
>>>>>>> new one with it.
>>>>>>> -Adrian
>>>>>>> On 1/20/2011 3:21 PM, Mike wrote:
>>>>>>>> I just loaded trunk and discovered that the
>>>>> normal flatgrey theme has
>>>>>>>> been completely redefined.  What
>>>>> happened?  I thought it was actually
>>>>>>>> the best theme that was very well
>>>>> organized.  Is there a way to get it
>>>>>>>> back?

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