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From Jonathon -- Improov <j...@improov.com>
Subject Re: ComputerWorld Article, Mentions OFBiz
Date Tue, 06 Mar 2007 10:56:27 GMT
Hi Shi Jinghai,

Yes, time will tell. Over the history of open source projects, there's been many forks that

supersede other "less favored" ones. Natural selection.

Time doesn't wait for anyone. I can create the best open source ERP in the world today, and
get superseded later on.

Actually, you don't need to "hear" about OFBiz to know what it really is. OFBiz is open source.

You know what it really is just by reading the source codes (plus the SVN commit logs).

Glad you're keeping your mind and eyes open. :) As always, "see for yourself", don't just
anybody's word for it.

As for Jacopo's comment, the topic he may have forgotten was about "services division", a
pertinent factor in both open source and commercial projects. As for Jacopo's comments about
really don't think that David ever said something like this", we'll have to ask David himself
also look at past posts on the ML). I could have remembered wrong.

As for Jacopo's comment "I've noticed the bad habit to attempt to attract David", I don't

particularly see this habit being rampant among posters (again, look through past posts),
so this 
ML is clean and lean enough. There are some outright inflammatory posts/posters, but those
rare, and please understand personalities and language barriers in play here. But I do admit,
see some rare posts directed at David to elicit very philosophical responses, though I can't
those philosophical discussions are unnecessary since I don't understand/read quite a bit
of those 
myself. I also see David trying to "contain" certain wrong/hasty directions in OFBiz development;

those would certainly "attract David". IMHO, David seems to be becoming a stronger "benevolent

dictator" (more free time now? terminology related to some past posts) for OFBiz, which is
for OFBiz.

As usual, to cut the discussion short and clean, I'll not respond to this thread anymore.
I just 
wanted to mention that it's good you're "seeing for yourself" over time. That's what we should
do, including/especially OFBiz core team, be objective. Though "the people" do make "the project",

it's often useful to look to the leader in predicting future directions than to look to the

members (like myself!).

Time will tell, and I'm placing my bets on OFBiz for now.

 >> As a general rule, never try to restate what you think that other said, just
 >> express your thoughts (if they are of interest for the project)

Jacopo is right here. But more specifically, we should not assume or second-guess intent of

posters; quoting other posters in order to respond to them is more grounded and less risky.


Shi Jinghai wrote:
> I don't think so.
> In Chinese, 兼听则明, which means you hear more on a thing's good and
> bad, you see more on what the thing really is.
> Time will show its justice.
> 在 2007-03-06二的 06:49 +0100,Jacopo Cappellato写道:
>> Jonathon, all,
>> Jonathon -- Improov wrote:
>>> David (Jones),
>>> What about those open source projects that are polished for OOTB 
>>> convenience and experience? Even Apache (httpd) and Tomcat (both under 
>>> Apache Licence 2.0?) have better OOTB "operational readiness" than 
>>> OFBiz. Ie, they work well OOTB and they have very good and widely 
>>> published docs to further fuel explosive rate of community development. 
>>> (I understand you believe that approach won't benefit OFBiz; I don't 
>>> know so I can't say.)
>>> ...
>> I'm sorry to interfere with a mail addressed to David Jones (via the 
>> mailing list), but I think that my comments (not specifically addressed 
>> to this Jonathon's mail) are worth of consideration:
>> 1) if it's not really necessary, I would not want to see David Jones 
>> time wasted reading/answering this kind of long messages about a subject 
>> discussed at least 1000 times; David is one of the best 
>> architects/developers in the project and we should all do our best to 
>> leave him concentrated in the most critical tasks that can make the 
>> project grow; in the last months I've noticed the bad habit to attempt 
>> to attract David (and other core developers as well) in long and 
>> unnecessary discussions
>> 2) another very bad habit is to attribute to others your personal 
>> re-elaboration of what others said: in this way, if the concept is 
>> reported in an incomplete or incorrect way, you can create confusion to 
>> new users and oblige the person to jump in and correct it. As a general 
>> rule, never try to restate what you think that other said, just express 
>> your thoughts (if they are of interest for the project).
>> For example, Jonathon said: "I understand you (David) believe that 
>> approach won't benefit OFBiz"
>> I really don't think that David ever said something like this; the main 
>> point here is that OFBiz and Tomcat are totally different products (as 
>> discussed 10000 times).
>> In general #1, #2 are harmful habits for a project and we should avoid them.
>> Jacopo

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