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From Nicolas Malin <nicolas.ma...@nereide.fr>
Subject Re: [DISCUSSION] Improving the OFBiz User Interface
Date Wed, 05 Jul 2017 21:21:04 GMT
Michael the separation layer between html/css/js lib and the model 
screen is already done on the common-theme present on my github repo (1) 
without break older theme.

This it's the easier face on the problem, because the hidden face is 
present with elements who use macro without ui rendering linked to a 
theme like some content or pdf. I will follow your effort and raise this 
task on the upper priority :)

Cheers

Nicolas


(1) https://github.com/nmalin/ApacheOFBiz/tree/common-theme
Le 05/07/2017 à 22:18, Michael Brohl a écrit :
> I'm currently twisting my had around the question of theme compatibility.
>
> The current theme set and the html code (freemarker templates and the 
> code produced by forms and widgets) correspond with each other 
> (naturally).
>
> So if we want to introduce a new CSS framework like Bootstrap, we will 
> have to follow it's CSS reference and introduce it's CSS classes to 
> the html and forms/widgets code. This will surely break the other themes.
>
> So we have to (1) either find a way to remain compatible with the old 
> themes or (2) decide to break the old themes (and remove them).
>
> (1) would mean that we (I cite myself)
>
> > will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI 
> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen contents 
> in an abstracted way (possibly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) 
> and make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css 
> attributes for the target library.
>
> (2) would mean that we will have only one first theme for a time (I'm 
> sure that others will follow more quickly because of using a standard 
> CSS framework)
>
>
> If I look at the Odoo approach [1], it seems that they are not 
> compatible with different frameworks but have their base template 
> build mainly on Bootstrap and jQuery. I still think that maintaining 
> an abstract layer for different frameworks or "theme languages" is too 
> much a burden for us.
>
> But will the community agree upon (2)?
>
> I might be wrong with my assumptions as I am not an expert (just 
> interested in a much better UI) so I appreciate the community's 
> feedback on this.
>
> Thanks and best regards,
>
> Michael
>
>
> [1] https://www.odoo.com/documentation/10.0/howtos/themes.html
>
>
> Am 04.07.17 um 20:53 schrieb Taher Alkhateeb:
>> I agree with Michael, baby steps for the win. I propose we perhaps
>> just postpone "big ideas" for now and focus on things that can get
>> results quickly to put life back into this initiative. Maybe next
>> actions could be the following:
>>
>> - Create a base theme
>> - Move all artifacts from framework/images to the base theme (jquery,
>> bootstrap or whatever already exists) and do the rewiring. Also look
>> for any web artifacts anywhere and move them to the base theme.
>> Essentially, remove any thing that is web-based and centralize it in
>> the theme.
>> - Create an implementation theme on top of the base theme
>>
>> Once the above is done, then we can have a discussion of what to do
>> next. There are _many_ ideas, but I will restrain myself this time
>> until we get some action first :)
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:31 PM, Jacques Le Roux
>> <jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>> Le 04/07/2017 à 16:57, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>> Hi James,
>>>>
>>>> thanks for your suggestions.
>>>>
>>>> As far as I know, JSF would introduce some new technologies because it
>>>> relies on beans and JSP's (correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not sure 
>>>> if we want
>>>> to go so far.
>>>
>>> Facelet is now the recommended technology for JSF
>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2095397/what-is-the-difference-between-jsf-servlet-and-jsp

>>>
>>> and both are parts of JavaEE.
>>>
>>> I agree with Michael and would not like to change OFBiz widgets for 
>>> JSF. Not
>>> that I don't like nor trust JSF (and Oracle, but then a bit less), 
>>> but the
>>> work is overwhelming and obviously we don't have the resources for 
>>> that.
>>>
>>>> I digged a little deeper into the UI stuff, templates and theming 
>>>> and have
>>>> to correct my summary a bit: I mentioned AngularJS and Bootstrap on 
>>>> the same
>>>> level which is like comparing apples and oranges. AngularJS is a 
>>>> client-side
>>>> JavaScript framework to build single page applications, icluding 
>>>> his own
>>>> model-view-controller mechanism while Bootsrap is a CSS framework 
>>>> which
>>>> provides comprehensive UI elements in a structured way.
>>>>
>>>> I guess that the use of Angular would need a whole lot more changes in
>>>> OFBiz than the use of Bootstrap.
>>>>
>>>> So I tend to think that we have to agree on a CSS framework like 
>>>> Bootstrap
>>>> and rewrite the UI to use the proper CSS classes for this 
>>>> framework. That
>>>> would possibly reduce the complexity and makes this statement of mine
>>>> obsolete:
>>>>
>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen 
>>>>> contents in an
>>>>> abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library) and 
>>>>> make it
>>>>> possible to generate HTML code with the right css attributes for 
>>>>> the target
>>>>> library.
>>>> It's maybe too ambitious wanting OFBiz to be able to be used with
>>>> different frameworks. The Bootstrap CSS world is well documented 
>>>> [1] and
>>>> there are a lot of really good looking and functional free 
>>>> templates out
>>>> there. So if we provide the UI code for it, together with one basic 
>>>> theme,
>>>> users can put their own themes on top of it.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe this is a way to come to a competitive UI in a relative short 
>>>> amount
>>>> of time. I don't think that we can afford to make this a year-long 
>>>> project.
>>>>
>>>> What do others think?
>>>
>>> I agree that using Bootstrap would be a good thing. An alternative is
>>> Foundation https://www.keycdn.com/blog/bootstrap-vs-foundation, this 
>>> could
>>> be possibly discussed.
>>> That's what ilscipio has used, with some success at the UI level I'd 
>>> say
>>> (they now tend to lean to Foundation). Now they derived from OFBiz 
>>> at other
>>> technology levels (no or less form widgets but more FTL macros, even 
>>> an API
>>> of FTL macros). So I'd try to compare the rest...
>>>
>>> I'd also let Angular out of the picture. Some prefer React 
>>> (initially from
>>> FB) and I wonder what those who have used Angular 1 think about 
>>> Angular 2! I
>>> also remember another Google "attempt": GWT. Are there still people 
>>> using it
>>> with OFBiz? I guess you get my point, trends pass and tools with 
>>> them...
>>>
>>> Jacques
>>>
>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>
>>>> [1] https://www.w3schools.com/bootstrap/bootstrap_ref_all_classes.asp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 15:00 schrieb James Yong:
>>>>> Hi Michael and all,
>>>>>
>>>>> We can look into JSF 2.2 as a possible candidate. It is similar to 
>>>>> OFBiz
>>>>> Widget and seems to fit the new requirements described so far in this
>>>>> thread.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> James Yong
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2017-07-03 17:42 (+0800), Michael Brohl <michael.brohl@ecomify.de>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Sharan,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks for the reminder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's fine to have another theme to choose for the "old" UI, I 
>>>>>> just want
>>>>>> to point out that (in my mind) the new theme/UI initiative goes far
>>>>>> beyond having just another theme on base of the current 
>>>>>> technological
>>>>>> stack:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - new themes should be responsive
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - we should be able to use different UI frameworks like Bootstrap

>>>>>> and
>>>>>> AngularJS who take care of responsiveness and browser compatibility
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - it must be easy for developers to write the screen structure 
>>>>>> and also
>>>>>> easy for webdesigners to build a good design on base of this
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - developers should not care about CSS styles and classes, and
>>>>>> webdesigners should not cara about how the screen snippets are put
>>>>>> together or how the screens get their data.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - we will need a new approach to be able to "plug in" different UI
>>>>>> frameworks. We'll need a UI layer who represents the screen 
>>>>>> contents in
>>>>>> an abstracted way (possbly an enhanced Freemarker macro library)
and
>>>>>> make it possible to generate HTML code with the right css 
>>>>>> attributes for
>>>>>> the target library.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - a rewrite of the screens will be necessary to make the UI less
>>>>>> cluttered and overloaded. This will require some concepts/design

>>>>>> work
>>>>>> beforehand
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - there are surely many other possible requirements (I am not a 
>>>>>> UX or
>>>>>> web design expert)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I appreciate the contribution of the new theme. I am also sure 
>>>>>> that this
>>>>>> will not solve the challenge to drive OFBiz to another level, UI

>>>>>> wise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks and regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 10:52 schrieb Sharan Foga:
>>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't forget that we also had the offer of a theme from Provolve

>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Stannah.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-6985
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a theme that they are using at the moment (so it 
>>>>>>> working) and
>>>>>>> have said it could be contributed back to the project. If it's

>>>>>>> only a
>>>>>>> case of having someone volunteer to implement it into the trunk

>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> this could be a way to get a nice theme up and running quickly

>>>>>>> for us.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 03/07/17 10:29, Michael Brohl wrote:
>>>>>>>> Thanks Nicolas,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> is there anything, even work in progress, you are able to
share at
>>>>>>>> the moment?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This way other could chime in and help moving further.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Michael Brohl
>>>>>>>> ecomify GmbH
>>>>>>>> www.ecomify.de
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Am 03.07.17 um 09:26 schrieb Nicolas Malin:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Michael
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Le 02/07/2017 à 20:42, Michael Brohl a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Julien, all,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'd like to resurrect this discussion and the activities
to 
>>>>>>>>>> improve
>>>>>>>>>> the OFBiz user interface. I think we really should
put some 
>>>>>>>>>> focused
>>>>>>>>>> effort on it if we want OFBiz to be recognized as
a modern ERP.
>>>>>>>>>> Also, if we imporve the UI, more users and also developers

>>>>>>>>>> will be
>>>>>>>>>> attracted which will be a win for the community and
further
>>>>>>>>>> development of OFBiz.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nicolas and others who have started work on this:
can you 
>>>>>>>>>> give us
>>>>>>>>>> an update about the efforts undertaken and where
we stand?
>>>>>>>>> Currently I block on the comon-theme with a good information
>>>>>>>>> propagation. My next step will be create a dedicate object
as
>>>>>>>>> referent on widget context, but my works has been disturb
with 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> framework separation and the git-svn link break.
>>>>>>>>> Instead of continue, I help some people to work on the
groovy
>>>>>>>>> mini-lang conversion. I plan to improve a few the groovy
DSL and
>>>>>>>>> after I continue the work on commont-theme.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nicolas
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>
>


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