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From Jacques Le Roux <jacques.le.r...@les7arts.com>
Subject Re: Apache OFBiz Service Providers page
Date Sun, 14 Aug 2016 11:25:15 GMT
After reading http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/linking in details I noticed it's suggested
to have a "Thanks" page

I looked at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/Revised+Website+Structure+v2+-+Approved
and noticed we have not a such page (@Emmanuel: 
this is WIP for our current site replacement)

Maybe we could create one and put a link from the footer.

I notably read in the foundation link:
"May include a small third party logo for the donor or the goods, and may include a simple
HTML link back to the donor."
"May include historical donations that were actively used in the past, but are not currently
being used. These items should be marked as such."

I'm thinking about donated logos (HotWax and BrainFood), don't they deserve a special thanks?
Of course other ideas may show up, maybe IntelliJ and 
Packt Publishing but they rather donate at the ASF level...

Because the <<"Who We Are" Pages>> section suggests

"Should include an overview or links to other ways that newcomers can participate in the project.
Think of these as both an introduction to who is 
currently in the project, as well as a welcoming way to show future contributors how to join."

I have added a link to the "OFBiz Contributors Best Practices" page. While modifying the PMC
page, I noticed the ASF committers map does not work 
well. It shows all committers and not only OFBiz's despite the project=Apache OFBiz parameter.
I will check and ask about that

I wondered about "Should not include corporate affiliations of actual contributors." but because
of "PMCs are free to allow including corporate 
affiliations, but should be consistent in their policy for all committers." I think it's good
to have it in our page.

Jacques

Le 12/08/2016 à 16:11, Jacques Le Roux a écrit :
> +1, I'd simply warn again about plain email addresses (spam likes that)
>
> Jacques
>
>
> Le 09/08/2016 à 14:05, Sharan Foga a écrit :
>> Hi All
>>
>> Just following up on this again as would like to get the Service Providers page tidied
up. Looking at the links Emmanuel sent, I think that the 
>> column with committer names needs to removed, and I would also probably remove the
number contributors column too.
>>
>> One thing to bear in mind is that I don't think this list changes very much, so I
would try to keep the information at a level that doesn't need a 
>> lot of maintenance.
>>
>> My suggestion would be to keep it as 3 columns, name, location(s) and contact. Location
can be wherever the company has a physical presence (so 
>> includes employees located there). The contact would be a website or an email, and
any other links eg social media would go.
>>
>> Please let me know if this would be an acceptable solution for everyone.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Sharan
>>
>> On 2016-08-05 00:54 (+0200), Scott Gray <scott.gray@hotwaxsystems.com> wrote:
>>>> Further more the columns 'number of committers/contributors' and
>>>> 'Contributors' provide an unfair advantage to those with committers and
>>>> more than 1 contributor.
>>>>
>>> An advantage?  Perhaps.  Unfair? I'm not so sure about that.
>>>
>>> Pros:
>>> If it does convey an advantage then perhaps that might encourage companies
>>> to contribute more which is good for the project both in terms of diversity
>>> and contributions.
>>>
>>> Cons:
>>> What does it mean to be a contributor?  If I create a single JIRA ticket
>>> for some minor thing can I then be considered a contributor for the rest of
>>> eternity?  If not, then we have to define some rules and I hate the idea of
>>> adding pointless rules.  For this reason I don't like the idea of including
>>> a count, but definitely not because of any perception of unfairness.
>>>
>>> The same applies with to service providers with
>>>> more than one location.
>>>>
>>> This I disagree with, it is not unfair to state the locations where the
>>> company employees work from.  I think that's information that the page
>>> users would find useful, and if it is important to them then attempting to
>>> figure out that information by following tens or hundreds of links isn't
>>> very useful.  To claim it is an advantage is in itself an admittance that
>>> the information would be found useful, is it not?  It's very
>>> straightforward factual information and unlike 'number of contributors' it
>>> doesn't require any rules or definitions and isn't open to interpretation.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Scott
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4 August 2016 at 07:52, Pierre Smits <pierre.smits@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I believe the link to the site of Antweb (ofbiz.info) adds little value,
>>>> as
>>>> the list can be sorted on location.
>>>>
>>>> Further more the columns 'number of committers/contributors' and
>>>> 'Contributors' provide an unfair advantage to those with committers and
>>>> more than 1 contributor. The same applies with to service providers with
>>>> more than one location. As I mentioned earlier, let the service providers
>>>> do their marketing on their own site. Referencing blog sites, social media
>>>> accounts, email addresses, etc falls into that category.
>>>>
>>>> A link to the primary website of the service provider should be enough,
>>>> resulting in following columns in the table:
>>>>
>>>>     - name
>>>>     - Country, Province/Region/State
>>>>     - website.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>>
>>>> Pierre Smits
>>>>
>>>> ORRTIZ.COM <http://www.orrtiz.com>
>>>> OFBiz based solutions & services
>>>>
>>>> OFBiz Extensions Marketplace
>>>> http://oem.ofbizci.net/oci-2/
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Jacques Le Roux <
>>>> jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the effort Sharan!
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd wait a bit that people have a look. I just had a glance but did not
>>>>> review all yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> for instance, I'm fine with http://www.ofbiz.info/control/providers but
>>>> I
>>>>> wonder if it follows the rules because I also did not read yet
>>>>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/linking#productsupport
>>>>>
>>>>> Jacques
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Le 03/08/2016 à 14:21, Sharan Foga a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have done an initial review of the service provider page and removed
>>>>>> any of the links that are broken, no longer working or where the
webpage
>>>>>> has nothing to do with OFBiz. If I know that it is OFBiz related
(even
>>>>>> though I couldnt find it on the website, I have left it in the list).
>>>> There
>>>>>> are a few Chinese ones that I will need some help in de-coding :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think this list built up to a big size was because it was previously
>>>>>> open and people just came in and created an entry and link to their
>>>>>> website, even if it had absolutely nothing to do with OFBiz. Now
with
>>>>>> having to be a contributor to edit the wiki, I hope this will prevent
>>>> this
>>>>>> type of thing happening in the future.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is sorted alphabetically and I've removed the description column.
I
>>>>>> will take a look at the link Emmanuel has provided. Should I continue
>>>> with
>>>>>> the tidy up based on what has been talked about so far or should
I wait
>>>> to
>>>>>> see if this needs to be discussed some more?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2016-08-03 09:43 (+0200), "Sharan Foga"<sharan.foga@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> I will start to implement some of these changes discussed here
so if
>>>>>>> anyone else wants to join in and help, then please feel free.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> Sharan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2016-08-02 16:06 (+0200), Jacopo Cappellato <
>>>>>>> jacopo.cappellato@hotwaxsystems.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> While we wait for the new site we could:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 0) add the page discalimer as suggested; additionally, as
Jacques
>>>>>>>> pointed
>>>>>>>> out, this page is open to anyone who submits an ICLA and
asks to be
>>>>>>>> registered as OFBiz contributor: no one is really reviewing
the data
>>>>>>>> provided... we could mention this in the header of the page
>>>>>>>> 1) merge the two lists into one
>>>>>>>> 2) sort in alphabetical order
>>>>>>>> 3) add a column with the number of committers; one with the
number of
>>>>>>>> contributors; we could add also a column with the number
of employees
>>>>>>>> working on OFBiz related projects; I don't think that this
data would
>>>>>>>> "unduly
>>>>>>>> advantage one commercial entity": the idea is to provide
some insight
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> the teams available to work on OFBiz specific projects
>>>>>>>> 4) make the above columns sortable
>>>>>>>> 5) Location: simply specify the location of the company's
>>>>>>>> offices/buildings; in the description the company can specify
the
>>>>>>>> countries
>>>>>>>> of operation
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jacopo
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Emmanuel Lécharny
<
>>>>>>>> elecharny@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi !
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> it came to my attention that this page :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OFBIZ/
>>>> Apache+OFBiz+Service+Providers
>>>>>>>>> might not be neutral enough, as it lists companies having
Ofbiz
>>>>>>>>> committers before any other companies. This is a problem,
accordingly
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> this :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Apache is a 501(c)(3) non-profit, which is a tax-exempt
charity for
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>> good.  As such, our projects must not unduly advantage
one commercial
>>>>>>>>> entity
>>>>>>>>> over another -- otherwise, funding our projects would
be a way to
>>>> fund
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> commercial activity without being taxed."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can also have a look at
>>>>>>>>> http://community.apache.org/projectIndependence :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>       Apache projects are managed independently
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apache projects must be managed independently, and PMCs
must ensure
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> they are acting in the best interests of the project
as a whole. Note
>>>>>>>>> that it is similarly important that the PMC clearly show
this
>>>>>>>>> independence within their project community. The perception
of
>>>> existing
>>>>>>>>> and new participants within the community that the PMC
is run
>>>>>>>>> independently and without favoring any specific third
parties over
>>>>>>>>> others is important, to allow new contributors to feel
comfortable
>>>> both
>>>>>>>>> joining the community and contributing their work. A
community that
>>>>>>>>> obviously favors one specific vendor in some exclusive
way will often
>>>>>>>>> discourage new contributors from competing vendors, which
is an issue
>>>>>>>>> for the long term health of the project.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would suggest you rework this page to order the company
using an
>>>>>>>>> alphabetical order, not mentionning the fact taht some
committers
>>>>>>>>> belong
>>>>>>>>> to those companies.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure that grouping companies by country is the
right thing to
>>>>>>>>> do, as some of them might provide support in many countries.
One
>>>> option
>>>>>>>>> would be to add the list of countries a company provides
support in
>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> the same line.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A disclaimer at the top of the page may also be added,
informing
>>>> users
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> neither Apache nor the project endorse any company. You
can have a
>>>> look
>>>>>>>>> at other project's page :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://cxf.apache.org/commercial-cxf-offerings.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://directory.apache.org/commercial-support.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks !
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Emmanuel Lécharny
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>


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