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From "David E. Jones" <d...@me.com>
Subject Re: VOTE: Begin Replacing OFBiz Framework With Moqui
Date Thu, 30 Apr 2015 05:42:28 GMT

> On 29 Apr 2015, at 00:41, Jacques Le Roux <jacques.le.roux@les7arts.com> wrote:
> I was rather reluctant about this but after the PoC concept has been introduced by several
persons and reading  the last exchange between Adam and David (where David said <<with
the clarification that to me "begin replacing" implies a PoC effort in a branch>>) I
sort of changed my mind, unlike Nicolas I will not vote -1 but 0.
> Like him I don't like the idea of plugging Moqui jars in OFBiz. On the other hand I understand
Moqui is open source and everybody has access once a Github account is created hence 0 and
not -1. It's still not a +1 because this adds extra complexitiy (2 repos, 2 set of tools,
how to communicate, etc.) I don't like much :/

Moqui Framework IS a separate project, more or less like any other JAR or set of JARs included
in OFBiz. It would always be maintained separately. If you think of using Moqui as adding
another repo, that’s strange… like saying that OFBiz is currently split across dozens
of repositories, one for each other open source project used in OFBiz.

Also keep in mind that there are other applications, both open source and commercial, based
on Moqui. The ecosystem around Moqui and the applications around it are what have driven it
to the point where it is now, and whether or not OFBiz uses Moqui all of that will continue.

> David mentioned  <<There is a chance Moqui Framework could become a separate ASF
project, though the name "Apache Moqui" is oddly contradictory>>  I guess still using
Git as preferred commit medium (but as said Jacopo with anyway Svn as ultimate repo at the
ASF). David also said he would prefer  <<the distributed and moderated approaches used
in the Linux kernel more than the community approach mandated by the ASF.>> which I
believe was David's main concern when he created Moqui.
> That's could seem contradictory with ASF policy but remember that each project can define
its own policy. Personnaly I don't see a problem with that, I trust David not wanting to become
a benevolent dictator, he many times always proved to simply want the best for the OFBiz project.
Mixed with << I would rather let people come along, express interest, and thoroughly
prove merit before they take on such a role. >> I understand that a Moqui podling would
be created without direct connection with OFBiz committers.
> It's certainly too early to get conclusions about having 2 separate projects working
together (in ASF or not), but I can already see some concerns
> If we introduce Moqui in OFBiz we can't avoid to speak about the 2 diverging ways of
doing things at the UI level. Though I have not used Moqui I believe it is more flexible for
this aspect, but again this add complexity. I know we are speaking about that yet, just saying,
because if the PoC works it's the next step.
> Sorry for the long and confusing post, it's hard to explain what I feel better.

This is the crux of the discussion for OFBiz: how much of the development approach driven
by the framework do you want to change? Do you want to continue doing things the same way
or look at alternative approaches that might be better (cleaner application artifacts, easier
customization, better security, a wider variety of tools, more efficient development)?

You mentioned above the community structure as my main reason for creating Moqui… it is
partly true in that it is the reason I chose to do it as a separate project and not an ASF
project. However, the real reason was continuing to explore some of the principles that went
into the design of the OFBiz Framework and taking them to the next level… including significant
cleanups and modernization that the OFBiz Framework needs badly.

My list of desired changes to OFBiz (after nearly a decade) got more and more into things
that would have required dramatic refactoring and breaking backwards compatibility in MAJOR
ways. After trying a bit within OFBiz it became obvious that was impossible, and would have
been extremely inefficient in terms of the time required. Doing it as a separate project solved

The real question behind this vote is: how do you want to do things in the future? If it is
similar to how things are done in Moqui then it’s there for you to use. If you like the
OFBiz framework tools as they are, then there’s no reason to even consider it.


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