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From David E Jones <david.jo...@hotwaxmedia.com>
Subject Re: [jira] Commented: (OFBIZ-2106) Visual Themes for Ecommerce
Date Thu, 01 Jan 2009 06:17:42 GMT

I guess Adrian doesn't believe me. Could someone pitch in and share  
your experiences implementing designs for ecommerce sites?

To get things started (hopefully) I'd say the biggest distinction is  
that for internal applications efficiency and few surprises are the  
goal, and therefore consistency is important, and for ecommerce sites  
the goal is to make each one different and attract attention and keep  
users on the site through any means possible.

If you have the same styles you have the same column widths, colors,  
etc, etc. What if you have multiple ecommerce sites with very  
different audiences? If all we give designers is a dramatically  
limited palette we can't expect to see good results... just consistent  


On Dec 31, 2008, at 9:42 PM, Adrian Crum wrote:

> I guess it's because I don't see eCommerce as being that unique. In  
> other words, we have a dozen or so back office applications that all  
> share the same visual theme, so why can't eCommerce share it too?
> What makes eCommerce so different? Nothing as far as I can tell. It  
> has a masthead, footer, main navigation, main content area, columns,  
> screenlets, etc - just like the back office applications.
> If we don't enforce theme compatibility, then what is the point in  
> having them? There would be no guarantee (or even a reasonable  
> expectation) that a particular theme will work with a particular  
> application. I believe the visual theme framework has been set up in  
> such a way that there is very little restriction in layout, but it  
> has enough structure to ensure compatibility. If restrictions are  
> found, we can address them at that time.
> -Adrian
> --- On Wed, 12/31/08, David E Jones <david.jones@hotwaxmedia.com>  
> wrote:
>> From: David E Jones <david.jones@hotwaxmedia.com>
>> Subject: Re: [jira] Commented: (OFBIZ-2106) Visual Themes for  
>> Ecommerce
>> To: dev@ofbiz.apache.org
>> Date: Wednesday, December 31, 2008, 11:58 AM
>> We could certainly have some styles shared, but if we
>> introduced the restriction that all styles had to be shared
>> it would severely limit what can be done in both public
>> facing and internal sites. I don't think we'll ever
>> get around the simple fact that different designs require
>> different sets of styles. If you don't believe that to
>> be the case, just try doing so with the simple and
>> artificial scenario of the current OFBiz internal apps and
>> the ecommerce demo.
>> If we accept that not all possible apps could be driven by
>> the same set of styles then we need to support multiple sets
>> of styles, with a different theme set/template for each set
>> of styles.
>> Unless I'm misunderstanding something that's really
>> the only distinguishing, and therefore relevant, point.
>> -David
>> On Dec 31, 2008, at 10:04 AM, Adrian Crum wrote:
>>> Bruno and David,
>>> Your replies repeat the discussions we had during the
>> development of the Visual Themes implementation. I don't
>> believe there is any disagreement on their benefits, or how
>> they are to be used, or the future of theme galleries.
>>> The point I was trying to make is this: If I'm a
>> back office worker, and I really like the theme used for the
>> company's eCommerce site, I should be able to select
>> that theme for my back office applications. Bruno's
>> proposal would make that impossible because eCommerce themes
>> will work ONLY on eCommerce. I don't think we should
>> force that distinction. Plus, it places an additional burden
>> on theme developers who would have to create two versions of
>> each theme - one for back office applications and one for
>> eCommerce.
>>> -Adrian
>>> --- On Tue, 12/30/08, David E Jones
>> <david.jones@hotwaxmedia.com> wrote:
>>>> From: David E Jones
>> <david.jones@hotwaxmedia.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [jira] Commented: (OFBIZ-2106) Visual
>> Themes for Ecommerce
>>>> To: dev@ofbiz.apache.org
>>>> Date: Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 2:01 PM
>>>> Personally I like having the internal and public
>> facing
>>>> sites different, and my guess is that most
>> organizations
>>>> with a public facing site (ecommerce or other)
>> will have it
>>>> quite different from the internal site(s).
>>>> To take this further, I think we should even
>> support
>>>> multiple theme sets to the point where people can
>> create
>>>> their own theme sets to use with custom
>> applications whether
>>>> they be public facing or internal. For example
>> some crazy
>>>> company might want a custom SFA app with its own
>> theme
>>>> because their sales people have a very different
>> set of
>>>> tastes from other departments in the company, and
>> even
>>>> moreso because they want to design the application
>> totally
>>>> differently so the same set of styles won't
>> work.
>>>> That last point is really the most important: we
>> really
>>>> should support the ability to have a themed
>> application with
>>>> a custom set of styles and not force people to use
>> the
>>>> styles OOTB. Whenever you dramatically change the
>> design of
>>>> an app you tend to need different styles than for
>> a very
>>>> different design and in those cases we either
>> don't
>>>> support themes or we support multiple theme sets
>> (I
>>>> don't like "theme type" BTW since it
>> means
>>>> nothing, but not sure "theme set" is a
>> lot better)
>>>> so people can introduce their own and have them
>> live with
>>>> the OOTB OFBiz theme sets.
>>>> For OFBiz we'd probably maintain what we are
>>>> maintaining now: one for internal (back-end) apps,
>> and one
>>>> for public facing apps (mostly ecommerce). The
>> excuse that
>>>> these are being well maintained (or maintained to
>> your
>>>> liking) right now doesn't influence this
>> argument either
>>>> way, IMO, and is largely irrelevant.
>>>> -David
>>>> On Dec 30, 2008, at 2:04 PM, Bruno Busco wrote:
>>>>> Adrian,
>>>>> I cannot see the problem.
>>>>> Right now we have and maintain two themes, one
>> for
>>>> ecommerce and one
>>>>> for backoffice. Each theme is composed by an
>> header, a
>>>> footer, several
>>>>> stylesheets and other related files.
>>>>> These files are distributed into ofbiz folders
>> and
>>>> now, with the
>>>>> introduction of VisualThemes, each set of file
>> has
>>>> been grouped and
>>>>> labeled with a VisualTheme.
>>>>> I think that we will never add more themes
>> into the
>>>> SVN (my
>>>>> vt_multiflex.zip file is absolutely not
>> intended to be
>>>> commited).
>>>>> So we should always take care, into the SVN,
>> of only
>>>> two themes as is
>>>>> has been unitl now (no one more file).
>>>>> In the theme gallery in Confluence there will
>> be
>>>> hopefully more themes
>>>>> available to be downloaded and installed
>> locally. The
>>>> Theme manager
>>>>> into OFBiz will let the user to have many of
>> them to
>>>> choose from.
>>>>> In this case the new visualThemeTypeId field
>> could be
>>>> handy in a way
>>>>> that only applicable themes out of what has
>> been
>>>> installed are offered
>>>>> to the user to choose from.
>>>>> If OFBIZ-1119 will go further and we will have
>> both
>>>> ecommerce and
>>>>> backoffice to share the same stylesheets AND
>> header
>>>> AND footer (which
>>>>> I really do not think be possible) we could
>> then do
>>>> not use the
>>>>> visualTheme classification and use just one
>> class.
>>>>> -Bruno
>>>>> 2008/12/30 Adrian Crum (JIRA)
>> <jira@apache.org>:
>>>>>> [
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2106?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel&focusedCommentId=12659910

>> #action_12659910
>>>> ]
>>>>>> Adrian Crum commented on OFBIZ-2106:
>>>>>> ------------------------------------
>>>>>> Bruno,
>>>>>> I'm trying to be realistic. Look at
>> OFBIZ-1119
>>>> - it is 18 months old and no progress has been
>> made on it.
>>>> That issue represents only one stylesheet. What
>> you're
>>>> suggesting is that we have multiple versions of
>> stylesheets
>>>> and other files for each theme - multiplied by the
>> number of
>>>> themes in the project (if we agree to have more
>> than one)
>>>> which yields potentially dozens of theme files
>> that need to
>>>> be maintained. Yet currently we can't keep
>> only one
>>>> updated.
>>>>>>> Visual Themes for Ecommerce
>>>>>>> ---------------------------
>>>>>>>              Key: OFBIZ-2106
>>>>>>>              URL:
>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-2106
>>>>>>>          Project: OFBiz
>>>>>>>       Issue Type: New Feature
>>>>>>>       Components: ecommerce
>>>>>>> Affects Versions: SVN trunk
>>>>>>>         Reporter: Bruno Busco
>>>>>>>      Attachments: bin.zip,
>>>> BrowseCategoryCSS.patch,
>> EcommerceVisualTheme.patch,
>>>> EcommerceVisualTheme.patch, screenshot.JPG,
>> vt_multiflex.zip
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> in the attached patch a simple
>> implementation
>>>> of selectable visual themes for the ecommerce
>> application.
>>>>>>> I have added the
>> "visualThemeId" to
>>>> the ProductStore entity. The user can select one
>> of the
>>>> available themes in the EditProductStore screen.
>>>>>>> I have defined the actual ecommerce
>> theme as
>>>> the default theme that is "EC_DEFAULT".
>>>>>>> I have followed for the ecommerce
>>>> main-decorator screen a pattern similar to what
>> done for the
>>>> back-end.
>>>>>>> One thing that we could think to do
>> (but I
>>>> would like to hear someone about) is to add a
>>>> "typeId" field or similar to the
>> VisualTheme
>>>> entity that could be used to distinguish between
>> the themes
>>>> for the back-end and for the ecommerce.
>>>>>>> Right now it is possible to select all
>> of the
>>>> available themes for bost application and this
>> results in a
>>>> mess if, for example, a theme for ecommerce is
>> selected for
>>>> the back-end and viceversa.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> This message is automatically generated by
>> JIRA.
>>>>>> -
>>>>>> You can reply to this email to add a
>> comment to
>>>> the issue online.

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