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From Geertjan Wielenga <geertjan.wiele...@googlemail.com.INVALID>
Subject Re: History of one bug, or what is the attitude of NB devs
Date Tue, 16 Oct 2018 09:18:06 GMT
Just please stop referring to these stupid surveys (do you know anything at
all about who filled in those surveys, for example?) -- NetBeans has a
community of users and that's who we're focused on supporting. If there are
missing features, file a bug report and ideally provide a pull request to
provide the fix.

Thanks,

Gj


On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 11:05 AM Tom Arilla <tmarill85@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hopefully I was wrong with the "decreasing popularity", Netbeans seems to
> rebound
> https://zeroturnaround.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/06-IntelliJ-IDEA-continues-to-dominate-the-IDE-field-768x683.jpg
>
> Le mar. 16 oct. 2018 à 10:54, Tom Arilla <tmarill85@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
>> The advantage of Netbeans is (was?) its clean and organized interface. It
>> is easy to destroy it with ad-hoc, non consulted decisions. I am spammed
>> 20x a day with "<hammer> Compile on save is disabled. It can be enabled in
>> Project Properties". Who came with that interface? I did disable "compile
>> on save"  to see instantly a list of all compile errors instead of "project
>> contains errors, run anyway?", a question which I won't even comment.
>> According to
>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/32895522/disable-copying-entire-line-when-nothing-is-selected-in-intellij2014-04-gsoc.php
>> the "copy entire line when no selection" was "the most viewed Intellij
>> issue". Who just came and remove the option from Netbeans? And told the
>> people which do not like it "I am sorry"?
>>
>> Possibly it is a good idea to concentrate on where Netbeans still shines
>> and be careful with that. Improve in a consulted way. Devs are different,
>> not everyone uses Netbeans to build very largr web apps which need "compile
>> on save" and where almost always statement = single line so copying an
>> entire line needs a shortcut. Which does not destroy usability for another
>> dev, not at all, because everyone uses Netbeans to build very large web
>> apps.
>>
>> I can not find the code in question using web search, possibly because
>> the old forums seem to be gone, but I will look through old source code and
>> post a patch here. If the option has really been removed and not something
>> other failed.
>>
>>
>> Le lun. 15 oct. 2018 à 21:06, Emilian Bold <emilian.bold@gmail.com> a
>> écrit :
>>
>>> Every option exponentially increases the states / configurations one
>>> needs to handle and invites bugs.
>>>
>>> So, often times a product will just not do something by design. See the
>>> great success of iPhone as a testament to this.
>>>
>>> But... we are developers! You can make a case for this feature. You can
>>> write the patch yourself. You can submit it. And... even if it's not
>>> accepted in the official build -- you can use your own custom NetBeans
>>> build! It seems very sad to me that companies/developers/users find it so
>>> unbelievable that you can actually customize your computing environment.
>>> With a bit of time or money invested you can tweak your perfect cozy little
>>> bits, just the way you like them.
>>>
>>> IntelliJ is a commercial product. On the forums you are a potential
>>> sale. This changes everything. Last I checked the open-source Community
>>> Edition didn't even have a proper Javascript editor (it only had basic
>>> syntax highlighting) -- the good Javascript editor was commercial only. Oh,
>>> how would things look if a small fraction of NetBeans' users would invest
>>> the equivalent of an IntelliJ license (89 - 149 euro/year) back into
>>> NetBeans development.
>>>
>>> --emi
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 4:12 PM Tom Arilla <tmarill85@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I am a longtime user of Netbeans and a submitted of many bugs. I see
>>>> how practically none of them is ever resolved, so that I do not submit any
>>>> bug report any more.
>>>>
>>>> I am wondering now (as probably many other users, given Netbeans'
>>>> declining popularity) if to leave, given the (increasing?) number of
>>>> problems with the IDE. Please help me and explain the history of one of the
>>>> many bugs, and why it is like that. Possibly it is a representative of the
>>>> current ecosystem around the development of the IDE.
>>>>
>>>> It is here https://netbeans.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=192613 and it
>>>> has 8 years. It is about adding a ridiculously easy option. And about an
>>>> option which was there, I but one dev representative who commented
>>>>
>>>> This behaviour is intentional. I am sorry you hate it but there are users
who love it. There is no plan to change it.
>>>>
>>>> had probably no idea that an option to disable this "behaviour" was
>>>> already there, several lines of code which were either removed or are no
>>>> more functional. I would check it again, but I do not care any more. Few
>>>> lines, which I would resubmit as a patch, but when I see a dev answer like
>>>> that above, or how I was once ridiculed when I asked about this bug on the
>>>> non-existing forum (something about the lines of not fixing it in order to
>>>> show who rules here), I do not care any more. Someone reopened that bug two
>>>> years ago, but probably no dev cares any more.
>>>>
>>>> IntelliJ is somewhat plagued with bugs, but when I browse discussion
>>>> forums of IntelliJ, there is something encouraging in all that energy of
>>>> *helping* the users, of *caring* about them. And we talk about adding few
>>>> lines of a ridiculously easy code. Which does not even increase the
>>>> complexity of the UI. Guess which will be my next IDE.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>

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