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From Jiří Kovalský <jiri.koval...@oracle.com>
Subject Re: Some of my thought regarding NetCAT 10
Date Wed, 31 Oct 2018 20:49:01 GMT
Thank you Alexander and Michal for your feedback. I for one appreciate 
that you spent time elaborating your thoughts in such a detailed 
fashion. I have just two comments.

1. Tickets in strange state

The luxury of dedicated people paid by Sun/Oracle to pay attention to 
bugs, develop features, respond to e-mails and the like are gone. With 
the same argument statement "...the dev team cannot address each 
issue..." makes no sense because there is no dev team. The dev team is 
you. Complaining about issues being ignored equals showing own 
misunderstanding how open source software development works. Good news 
is that you can filter the issues reported in October, trying to 
reproduce them one by one, adding your investigations and setting their 
status and/or priorities correctly. When do you plan to do that?

2. Tribe leaders are useless

I am afraid I disagree. True tribe leaders are precious asset for 
NetCAT. They simply act as managers, communicating with their tribe 
members, finding their strengths/weaknesses, then distributing the work 
load, periodically checking the status/progress, reminding about 
incomplete tasks, triaging issues, escalating the most serious ones to 
the NetCAT program coordinators, organizing meetups, etc. If these do 
not exist, everything falls on plates of NetCAT program coordinators 
which are obviously overloaded which leaves NetCAT participants with 
impression of chaos, ignorance or frustration.

But maybe I get it all wrong. I was coordinating NetCAT programs only 
for 13 years.

-Jirka

Dne 31.10.2018 v 18:02 Alexander Romanenko napsal(a):

> I want to add to the JIRA ticket problem too. This "tickets in strange
> state" was discouraging towards the end, because it felt as if testing
> became just a bureaucratic motion, not really something that lets the team
> know there are issues. Only blocking issues seem to be looked at. It leaves
> with feeling that if the IDE turns on without crashing, thats good enough,
> but whether it actually makes you productive - well thats just personal
> inconvenience.  This is a bit disheartening, because the UI of NetBeans is
> the best of any on the market. Git presentation is superb, editor
> splitting, database browser. But there are "small" things like
> NETBEANS-1373 (related to PSR-4 implementation) or NETBEANS-1452,
> NETBEANS-1379 which might be "minor" in comparison to IDE doing its bare
> minimum job, but are a show stopper enough for many to not be able to use
> NetBeans for actual work.
> 
> Comments around mailing list or jira like "workaround is to use external
> tool" or "it works if use 2010 version of the library, therefore not a
> problem", or no comment at all, as expressed by OP, not only not show
> whether team has capacity to fix those things to figure out some strategy
> (maybe advertise on twitter to bounty-hunt those, the same way NetCat was
> advertised and got me involved), but that no one even cares enough about
> making the product polished so that I may be encouraged to do some of my
> own development to help fix those, not just report.
> 
> Understandably, the dev team cannot address each issue, and what can they
> even say productively for many of them... But something does not feel right
> when everyone reports their own problems in silence, and there is no
> process to validate and upvote each other's submissions to be able to
> signal better what really needs work.
> 
> Maybe a good use of time could be to not only hammer away at (potentially
> invalid) test cases, but encourage to go through each other's issue
> submissions to promote/make visible reported issues to better communicate
> their impact.
> 
> Regarding tribe leader - also agree. And the idea that only tribe leader
> can edit test suites that need to be running I think is wrong. I mentioned
> before and made a Jira issue, there are some test case runs that do not
> make sense in 2018 or are incomplete to the point that their "pass" state
> creates a false positive impression. Time was poorly spent on those by
> testers, when could be used looking at other more relevant places in more
> detail. But because one must be a tribe leader with all added
> responsibilities of managing "human assets" in order to fix those up, they
> remain in the list.
> 
> Regarding time pressure comment. Its not that the time pressuring was not
> appropriate at all, but it seem to have occurred at odd times of the week.
> Eg. I am assuming that many like myself have some free time over the
> weekend after work to do this, so getting nagged at random
> Wednesdays/Thursdays that things are not getting done was misplaced. Now,
> if after a weekend or two or regional holiday nothing is done, then can
> start reminding people.
> 
> ср, 31 окт. 2018 г. в 12:11, <michal@owsiak.org>:
> 
>> I know that I am nowhere close to make bold statements, but here come few
>> remarks from my side (when it comes to current NetCAT edition).
>>
>> There are few things I liked, and few I haven't found quite appealing to
>> me.
>>
>> First of all, I feelt too much time presure. I haven't had this kind of
>> feelings in the past. It might be that I have joined quite late, but still,
>> there was this rush like feeling.
>>
>> I think that people who entered NetCAT might have felt little bit lost.
>> There was no clear entry point with details how to assign yourself to
>> tasks. I mean, you could have found all these information, however (in my
>> opinion) it could have been be explained better, pointing directly to
>> places where you have to click and how to choose stuff. To be honest, I
>> spent quite some time before succesfully assigning first task to me.
>>
>> Just an example, when it comes to slightly missleading info:
>>
>> - there is info that you need: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__jdk.java.net_8&d=DwIFaQ&c=RoP1YumCXCgaWHvlZYR8PZh8Bv7qIrMUB65eapI_JnE&r=8_Pz0x0SKeT5e3IehhQKCbQ2xl3tz40jnCU133NrdP4&m=AfOYVR5DZKQ-_o1JYLpuishPCVaIZ61dYGnbxxoCXlc&s=qd6G_5dSSUWvBM02E4CumA4XoBPq3nj_g05go1MPs4U&e=
but then, you are
>> redirected to version 11
>>
>> I think that tests should be more isolated. Pausing, in some cases, makes
>> no sense at all as I had to go through previous steps anyway to get to the
>> point where I have paused.
>>
>> JIRA tickets - it looks like we were encouraged to submit tickets, but
>> they are left in strange state - e.g. there is no person assigned to solve
>> the ticket. After few such tickets, it seems like submitting them makes no
>> much sense. I'd prefer to get - "Not a bug/Won't fix" comment, than no
>> comment at all.
>>
>> It might be, I have missed some sort of memo regarding JIRA tickets, and I
>> need to be more patient - than, it's fine, I will wait.
>>
>> Tribe leaders - to be honest, I don't find the concept of tribe leaders
>> quite useful. The tribes are heavily distributed, and as a tribe leaders,
>> people don't have that much impact on other's work or efficiency. It's
>> simply more work to do and more to worry about (e.g. distributting the
>> work). I think I prefer the way it is now, where each person can volountier
>> to perform some tasks.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Michal
>>
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>>
>>
> 

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