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From Christian Lenz <christian.l...@gmx.net>
Subject AW: History of one bug, or what is the attitude of NB devs
Date Tue, 16 Oct 2018 11:01:59 GMT
Hey Tom,

I can feel with you. Things to make it Default to think that this is what the user wants is
not that good. Not in all cases but in other cases. Please file a new Ticket in JIRA nowadays.
NetBeans is now an Apache product (still incubating) and not Oracle anymore. So now we have
nice JIRA and not bugzilla anymore.

No one will promise you to implement this Option, but to bring it up again and with the link
to the external, original ticket, would be more productive. So please help us for this 😊

In General, I often say make more Options into NetBeans. I know that there is more complexity
for this but it is as it is. Not everyone is happy with a Default behaviour. I mean in General
wie can leave the Basic Options as it is and everything else, what you still can do while
the Option files or what is new, could be on a new Option called advanced.


Cheers

Chris




Von: Geertjan Wielenga
Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. Oktober 2018 11:18
An: netcat
Betreff: Re: History of one bug, or what is the attitude of NB devs

Just please stop referring to these stupid surveys (do you know anything at
all about who filled in those surveys, for example?) -- NetBeans has a
community of users and that's who we're focused on supporting. If there are
missing features, file a bug report and ideally provide a pull request to
provide the fix.

Thanks,

Gj


On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 11:05 AM Tom Arilla <tmarill85@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hopefully I was wrong with the "decreasing popularity", Netbeans seems to
> rebound
> https://zeroturnaround.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/06-IntelliJ-IDEA-continues-to-dominate-the-IDE-field-768x683.jpg
>
> Le mar. 16 oct. 2018 à 10:54, Tom Arilla <tmarill85@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
>> The advantage of Netbeans is (was?) its clean and organized interface. It
>> is easy to destroy it with ad-hoc, non consulted decisions. I am spammed
>> 20x a day with "<hammer> Compile on save is disabled. It can be enabled in
>> Project Properties". Who came with that interface? I did disable "compile
>> on save"  to see instantly a list of all compile errors instead of "project
>> contains errors, run anyway?", a question which I won't even comment.
>> According to
>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/32895522/disable-copying-entire-line-when-nothing-is-selected-in-intellij2014-04-gsoc.php
>> the "copy entire line when no selection" was "the most viewed Intellij
>> issue". Who just came and remove the option from Netbeans? And told the
>> people which do not like it "I am sorry"?
>>
>> Possibly it is a good idea to concentrate on where Netbeans still shines
>> and be careful with that. Improve in a consulted way. Devs are different,
>> not everyone uses Netbeans to build very largr web apps which need "compile
>> on save" and where almost always statement = single line so copying an
>> entire line needs a shortcut. Which does not destroy usability for another
>> dev, not at all, because everyone uses Netbeans to build very large web
>> apps.
>>
>> I can not find the code in question using web search, possibly because
>> the old forums seem to be gone, but I will look through old source code and
>> post a patch here. If the option has really been removed and not something
>> other failed.
>>
>>
>> Le lun. 15 oct. 2018 à 21:06, Emilian Bold <emilian.bold@gmail.com> a
>> écrit :
>>
>>> Every option exponentially increases the states / configurations one
>>> needs to handle and invites bugs.
>>>
>>> So, often times a product will just not do something by design. See the
>>> great success of iPhone as a testament to this.
>>>
>>> But... we are developers! You can make a case for this feature. You can
>>> write the patch yourself. You can submit it. And... even if it's not
>>> accepted in the official build -- you can use your own custom NetBeans
>>> build! It seems very sad to me that companies/developers/users find it so
>>> unbelievable that you can actually customize your computing environment.
>>> With a bit of time or money invested you can tweak your perfect cozy little
>>> bits, just the way you like them.
>>>
>>> IntelliJ is a commercial product. On the forums you are a potential
>>> sale. This changes everything. Last I checked the open-source Community
>>> Edition didn't even have a proper Javascript editor (it only had basic
>>> syntax highlighting) -- the good Javascript editor was commercial only. Oh,
>>> how would things look if a small fraction of NetBeans' users would invest
>>> the equivalent of an IntelliJ license (89 - 149 euro/year) back into
>>> NetBeans development.
>>>
>>> --emi
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018 at 4:12 PM Tom Arilla <tmarill85@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I am a longtime user of Netbeans and a submitted of many bugs. I see
>>>> how practically none of them is ever resolved, so that I do not submit any
>>>> bug report any more.
>>>>
>>>> I am wondering now (as probably many other users, given Netbeans'
>>>> declining popularity) if to leave, given the (increasing?) number of
>>>> problems with the IDE. Please help me and explain the history of one of the
>>>> many bugs, and why it is like that. Possibly it is a representative of the
>>>> current ecosystem around the development of the IDE.
>>>>
>>>> It is here https://netbeans.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=192613 and it
>>>> has 8 years. It is about adding a ridiculously easy option. And about an
>>>> option which was there, I but one dev representative who commented
>>>>
>>>> This behaviour is intentional. I am sorry you hate it but there are users
who love it. There is no plan to change it.
>>>>
>>>> had probably no idea that an option to disable this "behaviour" was
>>>> already there, several lines of code which were either removed or are no
>>>> more functional. I would check it again, but I do not care any more. Few
>>>> lines, which I would resubmit as a patch, but when I see a dev answer like
>>>> that above, or how I was once ridiculed when I asked about this bug on the
>>>> non-existing forum (something about the lines of not fixing it in order to
>>>> show who rules here), I do not care any more. Someone reopened that bug two
>>>> years ago, but probably no dev cares any more.
>>>>
>>>> IntelliJ is somewhat plagued with bugs, but when I browse discussion
>>>> forums of IntelliJ, there is something encouraging in all that energy of
>>>> *helping* the users, of *caring* about them. And we talk about adding few
>>>> lines of a ridiculously easy code. Which does not even increase the
>>>> complexity of the UI. Guess which will be my next IDE.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>


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