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From Sean Schofield <>
Subject Re: great article
Date Tue, 09 Aug 2005 02:45:37 GMT
Hmmm I still did not hear a lot of specifics about what you liked
about JSF.  You mention it is a cleaner MVC approach.  But are there
specific examples where you were like "Hey this is so much simpler
with JSF"?

The description of the workarounds in your article were very
informative.  But equally informative would be some specifics on how
JSF was superior to other frameworks.  Or maybe you did not find that
to be the case?


On 8/8/05, Ray Davis <> wrote:
> I'm glad you've found the article useful -- we owe a lot to the MyFaces
> community.
> By the way, Sakai is open source, and so I hope that some of what we've
> done can be moved into other projects. In particular, we think it would be
> great if any of our work can be folded into MyFaces itself.
> As I wrote, we ended up not building directly on x:saveState, but instead
> building on the same idea. The actual Java code in both cases, though, is
> very simple and short.
> Sean Schofield wrote:
>  >I would have liked to have seen a rundown of
>  >what they liked about JSF in addition to a list of problems and how
>  >they solved them.
> I guess I do sound a little stressed out.  :)  Frankly, I think that
> dictating use of a 1.0 technology (particularly one with so many changes
> from its last beta) was a mistake for a project this size. It's true that
> we managed to work around the most serious problems (with help from
> MyFaces!), but it's depressing thinking about how much of that work is
> likely to be thrown away when JSF 1.2+ is available.
> And I think JSF's early insistence on "all components all the time" was a
> mistake as far as separation of concerns goes -- I think most long-lived
> projects would prefer to let UI designers make changes in web presentation
> layout independently of Java programmers. (I'm looking forward to the work
> that's being done on JSF-based templating.)
> But the problem was, of course, what else to use. There's not an obvious
> best choice. As a clean MVC approach, JSF certainly seems superior to
> Struts. When we started, Spring MVC seemed even riskier than JSF. (Nowadays
> I wonder how the combination of Spring + JSP 2 would've worked, but I have
> no practical experience to go by.) Tapestry & Velocity both have good
> points, but we wouldn't have been able to swing all of the rest of the
> Sakai project in that direction.
> Best,
> Ray

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