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From Scott O'Bryan <darkar...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [trinidad] cleanup
Date Wed, 05 Oct 2011 16:11:51 GMT
:D  Okay, I missed the >pre< jsf comment..  ;)  Totally good point.  
That stuff has been around since incubation and migrating them over has 
always been on the list of todo..  so yes again +1..

Scott

On 10/05/2011 09:34 AM, Gerhard Petracek wrote:
> +1 (see my comment about the >pre< jsf stuff)
>
> regards,
> gerhard
>
> http://www.irian.at
>
> Your JSF powerhouse -
> JSF Consulting, Development and
> Courses in English and German
>
> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
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>
>
> 2011/10/5 Blake Sullivan <blake.sullivan@oracle.com 
> <mailto:blake.sullivan@oracle.com>>
>
>     I agree that we want to get rid of the impl stuff first, but even
>     more important would be to get rid of the last of the old
>     UIX-based renderers and the image generation code that we don't use.
>
>     -- Blake Sullivan
>
>
>     On 10/5/11 6:18 AM, Scott O'Bryan wrote:
>
>         Yeah, I'm not sure we know what third parties might depend on.
>          I can tell you, for instance, which deprications, for
>         instance,  ADFFaces depends on.  I can even remove those
>         dependencies.  But the nature of Trinidad and client's like
>         ADFFaces is that the Trinidad implementations are exposed to
>         end-users.
>
>         Further, we've marked things as depricated if there is other
>         functionality in JSF2 which replaces it.  There have been some
>         refactorings of API's which might provide "safer", "faster",
>         or "more correct" implementations of certain functionality.
>          That's not to say the old functions are wrong or that
>         existing applications which use them cannot get away with
>         using the old API's, it just means they SHOULD use the new
>         implementations if they want to be "clean" and fully correct.
>
>         I use the Java Date object as an example.  It's an utterly
>         ridiculous class, admittedly, but it works and is there for
>         backward compatibility.  There are much more "correct"
>         implementations which address more issues such as different
>         calendars and localization, but that does not make the date
>         object.. "wrong".  Trinidad has, in the past, removed or
>         changed API's that just plain didn't work, but I'm not sure
>         that's what we're talking about here.  And certainly, I'm cool
>         with removing the deprecated stuff from impl since nobody
>         should be depending on it anyway.  My concern is for end users
>         of Trinidad and ADFFaces who may not have a voice or resources
>         to monitor changes of this sort in the Trinidad developer
>         community.
>
>         I don't know, what do other people think?  This is one of
>         those things where I think the more voices the better.
>
>         Scott
>
>         On 10/05/2011 06:46 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>
>             My intention is not to break something, and I was ONLY
>             talking about the JSF-2 version of Trinidad.
>             If there is code which just makes no sense at all in
>             JSF-2, then we should in MY opinion kill this code.
>             If it doesn't make sense for Trinidad, then it is highly
>             likely that it also don't make sense for ADF anymore, right?
>
>             IF some parts are still needed by some known 3rd party
>             libs, then those parts can of course remain.
>
>
>             But at the end of the day maintaining Trinidad will become
>             more and more problematic if we don't get rid of long time
>             obsolete stuff.
>
>             Again: only my personal opinion and experience.
>
>             I assume that ADF also has a JSF-1 and a separate JSF-2
>             branch. All the JSF-1 stuff would of course remain the way
>             it is currently!
>
>
>             LieGrue,
>             strub
>
>
>
>             ----- Original Message -----
>
>                 From: Scott O'Bryan<darkarena@gmail.com
>                 <mailto:darkarena@gmail.com>>
>                 To: dev@myfaces.apache.org <mailto:dev@myfaces.apache.org>
>                 Cc:
>                 Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 2:20 PM
>                 Subject: Re: [trinidad] cleanup
>
>                 We could, yes.  But we would force people to migrate
>                 apps which, perhaps
>                 is not a bad thing but traditionally we've taken a
>                 full vote before
>                 changing/removing API's in Trinidad because, doing so,
>                 incurs additional
>                 cost on the other frameworks which are using Trinidad
>                 as a foundation.
>
>                 Any company which provides Trinidad as a foundation
>                 for other framework
>                 code (like Oracle's ADFFaces) benefits from NOT
>                 breaking users of the
>                 framework every release and, frankly, I see a lot of
>                 value in keeping
>                 them around 'if possible'.
>
>                 Like I say, I'm not opposed to it, but I suppose I
>                 take more of a Java
>                 ZEN approach to deprecation of API's.
>
>                 Scott
>
>                 On 10/05/2011 05:41 AM, Mark Struberg wrote:
>
>                      I'm not sure if I understand this correctly.
>
>                      Trinidad-2 is for JSF-2 upwards exclusively, isn't?
>
>                      If so, then we can easily get rid of all the old
>                     dust which just confuses
>
>                 people.
>
>                      Furthermore there seems to be a few compat
>                     problems with JSF-2 f:ajax which
>
>                 can only be resolved by carefully cleaning those areas up.
>
>                      Just leave behind the old stuff.
>
>
>                      LieGrue,
>                      strub
>
>                          ________________________________
>                          From: Scott O'Bryan<darkarena@gmail.com
>                         <mailto:darkarena@gmail.com>>
>                          To: MyFaces
>                         Development<dev@myfaces.apache.org
>                         <mailto:dev@myfaces.apache.org>>
>                          Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2011 1:06 PM
>                          Subject: Re: [trinidad] cleanup
>
>
>                          Well just because something is depth aged
>                         doesn't mean we can
>
>                 remove it.  It just means that an alternate means is
>                 suggested or something may
>                 not work exactly as expected if used.
>
>
>                          A Prime example is ExternalContextUtils.
>                          That guy has been around
>
>                 since JSF 1.1.  It contains lots of functionality that
>                 wasn't present in
>                 later versions of JSF, but now is.  Use of the native
>                 objects should be
>                 encouraged, but there is also something to be said
>                 about older code being able
>                 to migrate easier to a later release.
>
>
>                          Now I DO agree with removing the JSDoc and
>                         possibly the deprecations in
>
>                 the impl, but I think it's important to keep any
>                 deprecations in the API for
>                 backward compatibility.
>
>                          Sent from my iPhone
>
>                          On Oct 5, 2011, at 4:32 AM, Gerhard
>
>                 Petracek<gerhard.petracek@gmail.com
>                 <mailto:gerhard.petracek@gmail.com>>   wrote:
>
>
>                          both - there are just two possibilities:
>                         those parts are really
>
>                 deprecated and we remove them (and refactor the rest)
>                 or we can't remove
>                 them and the information (annotation and/or javadoc)
>                 isn't correct.
>
>                              regards,
>                              gerhard
>                             http://www.irian.at
>
>                              Your JSF powerhouse -
>                              JSF Consulting, Development and
>                              Courses in English and German
>
>                              Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
>
>
>
>
>                              2011/10/5 Scott
>                             O'Bryan<darkarena@gmail.com
>                             <mailto:darkarena@gmail.com>>
>
>                              Gerhard, by deprivation hints, I'm
>                             assuming you mean the
>
>                 javadoc deprecations and not the annotations, right?
>
>                                  Sent from my iPhone
>
>                                  On Oct 5, 2011, at 3:09 AM, Gerhard
>
>                 Petracek<gerhard.petracek@gmail.com
>                 <mailto:gerhard.petracek@gmail.com>>   wrote:
>
>
>                                  hi @ all,
>
>                                      there are still over 400
>                                     deprecations (via @Deprecated) and
>
>                 nearly 400 via javadoc (not all of them overlap).
>
>                                      a lot of them are in for a long
>                                     time and some of them were
>
>                 deprecated even before [1].
>
>
>                                      however, some parts are still
>                                     used and can't be
>
>                 removed.
>
>
>                                      imo we should do a cleanup or
>                                     remove the deprecation hints.
>
>
>                                      regards,
>                                      gerhard
>
>
>                                      [1]
>                                     https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-1229
>
>                                     http://www.irian.at
>
>                                      Your JSF powerhouse -
>                                      JSF Consulting, Development and
>                                      Courses in English and German
>
>                                      Professional Support for Apache
>                                     MyFaces
>
>
>
>


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