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From Mike Kienenberger <mkien...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: spam in our wiki / wiki migration
Date Thu, 19 May 2011 15:06:28 GMT
I have been watching wiki changes on a regular basis for years,
although some months (like March/April of this year) I get overwhelmed
with other projects and don't keep up with them.

I don't think we've had more than a handful each year.   Obviously,
the problem will get worse over time, but as things stand, the work to
keep the wiki clean is minimal.

I've scanned through the wiki changes (around 200) in the last two
years, and I don't even see the spam changes.

A search on "spam" only pulled back three wiki changes since 2006.
Probably not everyone dealing with spam marked it as such.

Let's start marking spam fixes with "spam" in the comment, and then we
can get some real metrics about how big of a problem this really is.

Strangely enough, I don't see the spam cleanup notices for the changes
Gerhard made.

On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Gerhard Petracek <gpetracek@apache.org> wrote:
> +1
> @mike:
> there were 3 in the last 4 weeks and before that i haven't looked at wiki
> changes on a regular basis.
> regards,
> gerhard
>
> 2011/5/19 Mark Struberg <struberg@yahoo.de>
>>
>> Folks, i might be that we have to remove the public access without login
>> anyway!
>>
>> I actually thought this restriction is already in place.
>>
>> Remember the last time where Bart Kummel (still sad to not recognice you
>> for a shakehand at confess in Vienna btw!) helped us with contributing a
>> paragraph? He also had to file an iCLA.
>>
>> That's for 'significant contributions' of course, but a normal user must
>> at least acknowledge the ALv2 license rules if he likes to 'contribute'
>> something.
>>
>> In Jira we have this 'can be included' checkmark for patches. That's kind
>> of the analogy I think we also would need in moinmoin. In confluence we
>> already have an excplicit 'write' access, so this is not so problematic
>> because that 'ack ALv2' might be handled on the lists upfront.
>>
>> wdyt?
>>
>> LieGrue,
>> strub
>>
>> --- On Thu, 5/19/11, Mike Kienenberger <mkienenb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > From: Mike Kienenberger <mkienenb@gmail.com>
>> > Subject: Re: spam in our wiki / wiki migration
>> > To: "MyFaces Development" <dev@myfaces.apache.org>
>> > Date: Thursday, May 19, 2011, 2:27 PM
>> > The reality is that we don't use the
>> > wiki for drafts.   We use it to
>> > allow anyone, including non-officially-recognized
>> > committers, to create
>> > MyFaces specific pages.  I know Confluence as a
>> > documentation system
>> > is going away.   It's unclear to me if
>> > Confluence as a wiki is going
>> > away.
>> > I have never been involved with Confluence as an
>> > administrator, but if
>> > we can easily add anyone to the wiki space, that could be a
>> > workable
>> > solution.   If we go that route, we should
>> > have something immediately
>> > obvious which describes the process to get access.
>> >
>> > My opinion:
>> >
>> > Spam isn't a problem so far (going on several years
>> > here).   Major
>> > spam attacks get cleaned up by infra and are very rare (I
>> > can recall
>> > only three).   Minor ones happen rarely, and
>> > are easy to clean up
>> > ourselves.   The benefit of an open wiki far
>> > outweighs the spam
>> > cleanup costs.   I suspect that the work to
>> > maintain users for
>> > Confluence will be greater than the work we spend cleaning
>> > up spam.
>> > And as soon as we introduce a delay (getting authorized),
>> > then we will
>> > lose contributions.   I know I've tried to
>> > edit certain wikis, but for
>> > the minor change I wanted to make, it wasn't worth coming
>> > back at some
>> > later time after I had gone through the process of being
>> > authorized.
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Gerhard Petracek
>> > <gerhard.petracek@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > > thx mike for moving the thread.
>> > > it looks like it's getting more and i don't like to
>> > observe it.
>> > > we already said that we move away from [1].
>> > > instead of keeping the dev-wiki at [1] for drafts,...
>> > it might be better to
>> > > create a separate myfaces-dev space at confluence.
>> > > so we can add new contributors quite fast and if they
>> > submit spam, we can
>> > > remove them easily.
>> > > that's also the suggestion of the infrastructure team
>> > (at least of some of
>> > > them who responded to my question).
>> > > regards,
>> > > gerhard
>> > > [1] http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/
>> > >
>> > > http://www.irian.at
>> > >
>> > > Your JSF powerhouse -
>> > > JSF Consulting, Development and
>> > > Courses in English and German
>> > >
>> > > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 2011/5/19 Mike Kienenberger <mkienenb@gmail.com>
>> > >>
>> > >> Moving to dev.
>> > >>
>> > >> Neither Confluence nor the Apache CMS is a good
>> > replacement for a
>> > >> wiki.   Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be
>> > a better option for
>> > >> this yet (an unrestricted group documentation
>> > area).   Spam is part of
>> > >> the price you have to pay to have such an area,
>> > and we've been pretty
>> > >> fortunate to not have had that much of an issue
>> > with it.
>> > >>
>> > >> There was a discussion on various documentation
>> > systems on Cayenne
>> > >> that you might find helpful:
>> > >>
>> > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@cayenne.apache.org/msg06028.html
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 7:42 AM, Gerhard Petracek
>> > >> <gerhard.petracek@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >> > yes - we said we move the content for our
>> > users to confluence but maybe
>> > >> > it's
>> > >> > a better idea to wait until apache cms is
>> > useable (pdf export,...).
>> > >> >
>> > >> > regards,
>> > >> > gerhard
>> > >> > http://www.irian.at
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Your JSF powerhouse -
>> > >> > JSF Consulting, Development and
>> > >> > Courses in English and German
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > 2011/5/19 Mark Struberg <struberg@yahoo.de>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> I realized that our Wiki front page is
>> > pretty old (not to say outdated)
>> > >> >> http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/FrontPage
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> LieGrue,
>> > >> >> strub
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>

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