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From gvanma...@comcast.net (Gary VanMatre)
Subject Re: Trinidad, Tomahawk, Tobago, and RCF [Was: [Proposal] RCF, a rich component library for JSF]
Date Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:31:39 GMT
>From: "Matthias Wessendorf" <matzew@apache.org> 
>
> On 3/15/07, Mike Kienenberger wrote: 
> > From what I've seen, I'd agree. Tomahawk has a few "good" 
> > components, but I don't think our architecture is all that special. 
> 
> Yes, there are some really nice things. Scheduler for instance and 
> also in the sandbox. 
> There are some things in Tomahawk, which aren't consistent. 
> 
> > However, I'd also like us to try to pick up whatever can be done to 
> > work better with Tobago. 
> 
> yeah, I agree. Not sure, but from what I know Tobago is also not 
> *ready* for faces1.2, so perhaps that can be a chance as well. 
> 
> Still a huge first step would be a "myfaces commons", containing stuff 
> like updateActionlistener and validators/converters. 
> 

I would think that even moving the validators and converters out would be a big step since
they provide client side support.  There would need to be a *single* script delivery mechanism
and the component renderers would need to have API hooks in order to act on behalf of these
"components" (converters, validators)  that don't have renderers.



> -M 
> 

Gary


> > 
> > On 3/15/07, Matthias Wessendorf wrote: 
> > > Thanks for doing a new thread on this, since the *old* was a bit offtopic.

> > > 
> > > Your message is exactly that, what Mario says. Keep it inside the 
> > > MyFaces community and work on a (using your word) well integrated 
> > > component set. 
> > > 
> > > Trinidad has a good facility to be the *base* and I basically think it 
> > > is worth to take a look at Tomahawk, for next version (JSF 1.2 
> > > -compliant). 
> > > We can use Trinidad's facility for *generating* components, tag and 
> > > doc and we "only" need to write the Renderer. And... we should perhaps 
> > > also take a look at all those tables, trees etc. 
> > > 
> > > So, yes keeping Trinidad here makes sense. I don't had that strong 
> > > opinion on TLP or subproject, but after reading Mario's mail a second 
> > > time and now yours, I'd agree. 
> > > 
> > > Regarding, Trinidad as *base*, that's the way Oracle is using in the RCF. 
> > > 
> > > -Matthias 
> > > 
> > > On 3/15/07, Mike Kienenberger wrote: 
> > > > I'd strongly prefer to see Trinidad as a subproject of MyFaces than a
TLP. 
> > > > The JSF world needs better integrated component sets, not yet another

> > > > splintered-off incompatible-with-everything-else component set. 
> > > > That is only likely to happen if the component sets are part of the 
> > > > same project and the "good ideas" from one component set are applied 
> > > > to the other component sets. 
> > > > 
> > > > I still think there's hope for making Tobago and Tomahawk compatible 
> > > > as well. We started a discussion on this, and it was postponed until 
> > > > after a Tobago release (0.8?) by the Tobago developers, but 
> > > > unfortunately we never returned back to it. 
> > > > 
> > > > At some point we should discuss what an ideal JSF component framework

> > > > architecture looks like and whether it's feasible for all of our 
> > > > components to be a part of such an architecture. 
> > > > 
> > > > On 3/15/07, Martin Marinschek wrote: 
> > > > > I've already mentioned that with this addition, I see Trinidad as
a 
> > > > > Top Level project rather than a sub-level project of MyFaces. 
> > > > > 
> > > > > What do you think about that? 
> > > > > 
> > > > > regards, 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Martin 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On 3/15/07, Martin Marinschek wrote: 
> > > > > > Count me in! 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > regards, 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Martin 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > On 3/15/07, Simon Lessard wrote: 
> > > > > > > Hello Matthias, 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > I would like to join as an initial commiter as well if
possible. 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Thanks, 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > ~ Simon 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > On 3/14/07, Gary VanMatre < gvanmatre@comcast.net>
wrote: 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > >From: "Matthias Wessendorf" 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Hi, 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > This is a proposal to donate a rich component
library for JSF to 
> the 
> > > > > > > > > Apache Software Foundation. The live version
of the proposal is 
> > > > > > > > > available at 
> > > > > > > > > http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/RCF_Proposal .

> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Omar Tazi (Chief Open Source Evangelist at Oracle)
and I have 
> been 
> > > > > > > > > working on that proposal over the past days.

> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Comments and questions are welcome. There is
also a vacant place 
> for two 
> > > > > > > more 
> > > > > > > > > mentors. Once people are satisfied with the proposal
I will 
> first 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Matthias, Please consider me for one of the vacant
positions. I'd 
> *like* 
> > > > > > > to volunteer my time. 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > Gary VanMatre 
> > > > > > > > gvanmatre@apache.org 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > call a vote on the MyFaces PMC to sponsor the
proposal and Omar 
> will 
> > > > > > > > > resend this proposal to the General Incubator
List. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > PS. Based on quick Google and USPTO searches
there doesn't seem 
> to be 
> > > > > > > > > anything that would cause trouble with the "RCF"
name. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Thx, 
> > > > > > > > > Matthias Wessendorf 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > ================================ 
> > > > > > > > > RCF, a rich component library for JSF 
> > > > > > > > > ================================ 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Abstract 
> > > > > > > > > -------- 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > RCF is a rich (Ajax-style) component set for
the JavaServer 
> Faces(tm) 
> > > > > > > > > 1.2 technology. . 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Proposal 
> > > > > > > > > -------- 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > RCF is an Ajax-based component library for the
JavaServer Faces 
> > > > > > > > > technology. RCF comes with very high quality
components, and 
> skinning 
> > > > > > > > > (CSS-based) capabilities. RCF features include:
file upload 
> support, 
> > > > > > > > > client-side conversion and validation, a complete
Aja x-inte 
> gration, 
> > > > > > > > > data tables, hierarchical tables, color/date
pickers, menu 
> > > > > > > > > tabs/buttons, wizards, popups, toolbars, toolboxes,

> > > > > > > > > internationalization and accessibility. This
project starts with 
> more 
> > > > > > > > > than 100 components which have already been documented
and 
> thoroughly 
> > > > > > > > > tested. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > RCF stands for Rich Client Framework and it means
that web 
> > > > > > > > > applications, using this component set look very
similar to a 
> real, 
> > > > > > > > > native desktop application. The name for this
project can be a 
> subject 
> > > > > > > > > to change. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > RCF depends on some artifacts, provided by the
Apache Trinidad 
> > > > > > > > > project, such as framework features or Apache
Maven plug-ins. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Background 
> > > > > > > > > -------- 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > The development of RCF started in 2005 at Oracle
Corporation. 
> With the 
> > > > > > > > > advent of Ajax and the higher requirements for
a very rich user 
> > > > > > > > > experience, Oracle decided to implement a ri
ch/Aja x-style JSF 
> > > > > > > > > component set. The goal was to advance the already
existing ADF 
> Faces 
> > > > > > > > > product, donated to the ASF in early 2006 (Apache
Trinidad). 
> When the 
> > > > > > > > > development of RCF started, there wasn't any
JSF component set 
> that 
> > > > > > > > > provides similar richness to the user. The RCF
components run on 
> any 
> > > > > > > > > JSF 1.2 compliant implementation. RCF is based
on some internal 
> > > > > > > > > features of the Apache Trinidad project. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > The JavaServer Faces technology is a very important
technology 
> for the 
> > > > > > > > > RCF component set, since RCF requires JSF as
its runtime 
> environment. 
> > > > > > > > > Oracle has a large commitment to both open source
and open 
> standards. 
> > > > > > > > > This proposal illustrates Oracle's commitment
to the success of 
> the 
> > > > > > > > > JSF standard and supporting the open source community
by 
> providing a 
> > > > > > > > > rich component set under a liberal license, the
Apache 2.0 
> license. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Rationale 
> > > > > > > > > -------- 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > The p roject is interested in moving to Apache
for the following 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > reasons: To provide Apache-licensed implementation
of a 
> full-blown 
> > > > > > > > > Ajax-based JSF component set, to become better
integrated with 
> the 
> > > > > > > > > MyFaces and Shale initiatives, and to build a
strong 
> vendor-neutral 
> > > > > > > > > community that will outlast any one person's
or company's 
> > > > > > > > > participation. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Initial Goals 
> > > > > > > > > -------- 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > The initial goals of the proposed project are:

> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > * Viable community around the RCF code base 
> > > > > > > > > * Active relationships and possible cooperation
with related 
> projects 
> > > > > > > > > and communities, such as Apache MyFaces (and
it's subprojects) 
> or 
> > > > > > > > > Apache Trinidad. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Current Status 
> > > > > > > > > ============== 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Meritocracy 
> > > > > > > > > -------- 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > All the initial committers are familiar with
the meritocracy 
> > > > > > > > > principles of Apache, and have already worked
on the various 
> source 
> > > > > > > > > code bases. Some of the initial committers also
have experience, 
> > > > > > > > > undergoing the Apache incubation process. We
will follow the 
> normal 
> > > > > > > > > meritocracy rules also with other potential contributors.

> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Community 
> > > > > > > > > -------- 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > The Apache MyFaces project, the Apache Trinidad
podling and the 
> > > > > > > > > JavaServer Faces standard hold great promise.
A fully Ajax-based 
> set 
> > > > > > > > > of user interface components will significantly
accelerate their 
> > > > > > > > > adoption. We strongly believe that RCF will gather
significant 
> > > > > > > > > momentum and enough developers to build a vibrant
community of 
> users 
> > > > > > > > > and contributors. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Core Developers 
> > > > > > > > > -------- 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Four of the initial committers are Oracle employees
and all are 
> > > > > > > > > committers on the Apache Trinidad podling. One
of them is a 
> committer 
> > > > > > > > > at Apache MyFaces and Apache Shale. Four of the
initial 
> committers are 
> > > > > > > > > committers o n the Apache MyFaces project. RCF
was developed by 
> Oracle 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > employees. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Alignment 
> > > > > > > > > -------- 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > RCF aligns perfectly with Apache MyFaces, Apache
Trinidad and 
> other 
> > > > > > > > > ASF projects utilizing J2EE infrastructure such
as Tomcat or 
> Shale. Of 
> > > > > > > > > particular relevance are projects such as Geronimo,
Apache 
> libraries 
> > > > > > > > > like Jakarta Taglibs and Apache Maven. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Known Risks 
> > > > > > > > > ============== 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Orphaned products 
> > > > > > > > > -------- 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Most of the active developers would like to become
RCF 
> Committers or 
> > > > > > > > > PMC Members and have long term interest to develop
and maintain 
> the 
> > > > > > > > > code. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Inexperience with Open Source 
> > > > > > > > > ----------------------------- 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > All the initial developers have worked on open
source before and 
> many 
> > > > > > > > > are committers and PMC members within other Apache
projects. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Homogenous Developers 
> > > > > > > > > ----- ------------------------ 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Four of the initial committers are Oracle employees.
The 
> developers 
> > > > > > > > > are experienced and very familiar with distributed,

> multi-national, 
> > > > > > > > > asynchronous environments. Also Oracle will most
likely 
> influence 
> > > > > > > > > developers across the globe to join the RCF community.

> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Reliance on Salaried Developers 
> > > > > > > > > ----------------------------- 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Some of the initial committers are salaried developers
employed 
> by 
> > > > > > > > > Oracle. Oracle is committed to standards and
open source and 
> committed 
> > > > > > > > > to building a vibrant and diverse community around
this project. 
> The 
> > > > > > > > > remaining developers are individual volunteers
who are 
> passionate 
> > > > > > > > > about the technology. The donating company has
reached out and 
> will 
> > > > > > > > > continue to reach out in its effort to build
a diverse 
> community. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Relationships with Other Apache Products 
> > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ ---- <
BR>> 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > RCF will likely be used by a Java EE 5 (web)
compliant 
> container, like 
> > > > > > > > > Geronimo or Tomcat 6, requires some Apache products
(Shale Test, 
> > > > > > > > > commons digester, commons beanutils, Trinidad,
Xerces), and will 
> > > > > > > > > support Apache MyFaces. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand

> > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > All of us are familiar with Apache and we have
participated in 
> Apache 
> > > > > > > > > projects as contributors, committers, and PMC
members. While we 
> expect 
> > > > > > > > > the Apache brand may help attract more contributors,
our 
> interests in 
> > > > > > > > > starting this project is based on the factors
mentioned in the 
> > > > > > > > > Rationale section. However, we will be sensitive
to inadvertent 
> abuse 
> > > > > > > > > of the Apache brand and will work with the Incubator
PMC and the 
> PRC 
> > > > > > > > > to ensure the brand policies are respected. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Documentation 
> > > > > > > > > ============= 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > There isn't a documentation at the moment, but
Oracle is 
> actively 
> > > > > > > > > working on developing comprehensive documentation
for RCF and 
> that 
> > > > > > > > > documentation will be provided soon or upon availability.

> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Initial Source 
> > > > > > > > > ============== 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > The initial code base is owned by Oracle. The
applicable code 
> will be 
> > > > > > > > > re-licensed under the Apache License 2.0. All
dependencies have 
> Apache 
> > > > > > > > > compatible licenses. These include BSD and CDDL
licensed 
> dependencies. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > External Dependencies 
> > > > > > > > > ============== 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > All dependencies have Apache compatible licenses.
These include 
> BSD 
> > > > > > > > > and CDDL licensed dependencies. 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Required Resources 
> > > > > > > > > ============== 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Mailing lists 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > * rcf-dev@incubator.apache.org 
> > > > > > > > > * rcf-commits@incubator.apache.org 
> > > > > > > > > * rcf-private@incubator.apache.org 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Subversion Directory 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > * h ttps:/ /svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/rfc

> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Issue Tracking 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > * JIRA RCF (RCF) 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Other Resources 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > * Wiki 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Initial Committers 
> > > > > > > > > ================== 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Name Email CLA 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > > Adam Winer awiner at apache dot org yes 
> > > > > > > > > Bernd Bohmann bommel at apache dot org yes 
> > > > > > > > > Bruno Aranda baranda at apache dot org yes 
> > > > > > > > > Gabrielle Crawford gcrawford at apache dot org
yes 
> > > > > > > > > Gerald Muellan gmuellan at apache dot org yes

> > > > > > > > > Jeanne Waldman jwaldman at apache dot org yes

> > > > > > > > > Martin van den Bemt mvdb at apache dot org yes

> > > > > > > > > Martin Marinschek mmarinschek at apache dot org
yes 
> > > > > > > > > Matthias Wessendorf matzew at apache dot org
yes 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Affiliations 
> > > > > > > > > ============ 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Name Affiliation 
> > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------

> > > > > > > > &g t; Ada m Winer Oracle Corporation 
> > > > > > > > > Gabrielle Crawford Oracle Corporation 
> > > > > > > > > Jeanne Waldman Oracle Corporation 
> > > > > > > > > Matthias Wessendorf Oracle Corporation 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Sponsors 
> > > > > > > > > ======== 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Champion 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > * Manfred Geiler (manolito at apache dot org)

> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Nominated Mentors 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > * Martin van den Bemt (mvdb at apache dot org)

> > > > > > > > > * ''TODO'' 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > Sponsoring Entity 
> > > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > > * ''TODO: Apache MyFaces (vote needed)'' 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > -- 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > http://www.irian.at 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Your JSF powerhouse - 
> > > > > > JSF Consulting, Development and 
> > > > > > Courses in English and German 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > -- 
> > > > > 
> > > > > http://www.irian.at 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Your JSF powerhouse - 
> > > > > JSF Consulting, Development and 
> > > > > Courses in English and German 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Matthias Wessendorf 
> > > http://tinyurl.com/fmywh 
> > > 
> > > further stuff: 
> > > blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf 
> > > mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Matthias Wessendorf 
> http://tinyurl.com/fmywh 
> 
> further stuff: 
> blog: http://jroller.com/page/mwessendorf 
> mail: mwessendorf-at-gmail-dot-com 
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