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From Jacob Hookom <ja...@hookom.net>
Subject Re: svn commit: r356552 - in /incubator/tobago/trunk: src/site/fml/faq.fml tobago-theme/tobago-theme-richmond/pom.xml
Date Thu, 15 Dec 2005 01:59:34 GMT
The 'jsfc' addition was just a value-add for those that enjoyed 
Tapestry-- I don't ever use it and have pondered peoples use of it in 
comments online.  Facelets is just another option out there that's pure 
JSF for view management and allows a lot of features around 
compositions, 'user tags', and templating that can be used with Tobago 
or any other component library.

One example that Adam could've provided is that for ADF to integrate 
with JSP, it was about 1mb of Java code, while to integrate with 
Facelets, it was only 8k.

If anything, I think supporting alternate ViewHandlers will make MyFaces 
a stronger implementation period.

-- Jacob



Adam Winer wrote:

>Martin,
>
>Facelets DOES NOT push people into interspersing HTML.
>It allows it, and doesn't blow chunks when you do, but it's
>perfectly happy dealing with pure JSF trees and no HTML
>anywhere around.
>
>It is way, way, way better than JSPs.  Period.  There's nothing
>JSPs do for JSF that Facelets do not do much much better.
>The issue of "abstracting away from HTML" is orthogonal
>and unrelated.
>
>-- Adam
>
>
>On 12/14/05, Martin Marinschek <martin.marinschek@gmail.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>@HTML and Tobago:
>>
>>Tobago has its own LayoutManager - something a little like the
>>Swing-Layoutmanager concept, except that it isn't pluggable.
>>
>>@HTML and Facelets:
>>
>>What I have been advocating in the past - and all other people I know
>>doing any serious development with Faces is to get rid of as much HTML
>>and Java-code in the view as possible.
>>
>>This is the only way to make rendering to different output formats happen...
>>
>>I don't want to be negative here - but if you view it this way,
>>Facelets (and JSF1.2) is actually a step back in development as it
>>allows you to intersperse HTML more easily again. I know that users
>>crave for this possibility, but is it actually something that should
>>be desired?
>>
>>I think that Tobago is one step further down the road here - with the
>>layout manager, the Tobago guys abstract even more from the concrete
>>output format. It's a shame that the thing isn't pluggable though, and
>>that the whole thing is not compatible to standard layouting. We
>>really ought to fix this!
>>
>>regards,
>>
>>Martin
>>
>>On 12/14/05, jacob@hookom.net <jacob@hookom.net> wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Facelets is just a ViewHandler, that's it-- just as JSP is.  The benefit of Facelets
with Tobago is that it would allow aliasing of Tobago components in simple HTML divs or spans
in relation to layout.  Truthfully, it's a very big, win-win situation for both projects.
 This is only one aspect of the Facelets framework.  If you have questions, just email the
project owner on java.net.
>>>
>>>-- Jacob (Facelets Guy)
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>We didn't have the time to really check out Facelets up to now. We
>>>>removed the according FAQ entry and will take some time to look closer
>>>>at Facelets. From the documentation of Facelets we just saw the
>>>>"Tapestry-like views" aspect and this doesn't seem to make sense for Tobago.
>>>>
>>>>Regards,
>>>>Arvid
>>>>
>>>>Adam Winer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Mike is entirely correct.  There's no reason why any decent
>>>>>JSF component library shouldn't work with Facelets,
>>>>>and bommel@apache.org doesn't understand Facelets.
>>>>>ADF Faces, for example, abstracts away from HTML too;
>>>>>Facelets makes awesome sense with ADF Faces, just as
>>>>>it would with Tobago.
>>>>>
>>>>>The whole "Tapestry-like views" aspect of Facelets is just
>>>>>one small bit of it;  the major value is providing a much, much
>>>>>better environment for JSF than JSPs are.
>>>>>
>>>>>Honestly, anyone who uses Facelets after JSPs will
>>>>>never want to go back.  I don't quite get why MyFaces hasn't
>>>>>embraced Facelets fully.
>>>>>
>>>>>-- Adam Winer
>>>>>
>>>>>On 12/13/05, Mike Kienenberger <mkienenb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>I think there's some misunderstanding here about facelets.   Facelets
>>>>>>isn't tied to any particular view technology (ie, html).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Facelets are based on HTML-designed JSP source code" is untrue.
>>>>>>Facelets doesn't use tld files or (jsp)Tag classes.   Facelets works
>>>>>>directly on the component class.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There shouldn't be any reason why you can't use facelets with tobago,
>>>>>>providing you're writing clean components.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On 12/13/05, bommel@apache.org <bommel@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Author: bommel
>>>>>>>Date: Tue Dec 13 09:35:51 2005
>>>>>>>New Revision: 356552
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs?rev=356552&view=rev
>>>>>>>Log:
>>>>>>>added faq for facelets
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Modified:
>>>>>>>   incubator/tobago/trunk/src/site/fml/faq.fml
>>>>>>>   incubator/tobago/trunk/tobago-theme/tobago-theme-richmond/pom.xml
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Modified: incubator/tobago/trunk/src/site/fml/faq.fml
>>>>>>>URL:
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs/incubator/tobago/trunk/src/site/fml/faq.fml?rev=3
>>>>56552&r1=356551&r2=356552&view=diff
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>============================================================================
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>==
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>--- incubator/tobago/trunk/src/site/fml/faq.fml (original)
>>>>>>>+++ incubator/tobago/trunk/src/site/fml/faq.fml Tue Dec 13 09:35:51
2005
>>>>>>>@@ -22,6 +22,16 @@
>>>>>>>          components that need a renderer.</p>
>>>>>>>       </answer>
>>>>>>>    </faq>
>>>>>>>+    <faq id="tobago/facelets">
>>>>>>>+      <question>It is possible to combine tobago with
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>facelets?</question>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>+      <answer>
>>>>>>>+        <p>It doesn't make sense.</p>
>>>>>>>+        <p>Facelets are based on HTML-designed JSP source
code.</p>
>>>>>>>+        <p>Tobago on the other side abstracts from HTML.
There are no
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>HTML-Tags in the JSP source code.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>+           There are only abstract tags. The Renderkit converts
it to HTML
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>or any other ML.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>+           The idea of Tobago is: The theme controls the look-and-feel
of
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>the page.</p>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>+      </answer>
>>>>>>>+    </faq>
>>>>>>>    <faq id="tiles/sitemesh">
>>>>>>>      <question>Can tobago replace tiles? Can I ignore tiles
and sitemesh
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>in the favor of tobago or not?
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>      </question>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Modified:
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>incubator/tobago/trunk/tobago-theme/tobago-theme-richmond/pom.xml
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>URL:
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs/incubator/tobago/trunk/tobago-theme/tobago-theme-
>>>>richmond/pom.xml?rev=356552&r1=356551&r2=356552&view=diff
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>============================================================================
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>==
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>--- incubator/tobago/trunk/tobago-theme/tobago-theme-richmond/pom.xml
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>(original)
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>+++ incubator/tobago/trunk/tobago-theme/tobago-theme-richmond/pom.xml
Tue
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>Dec 13 09:35:51 2005
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>@@ -26,7 +26,7 @@
>>>>>>>  </parent>
>>>>>>>  <artifactId>tobago-theme-richmond</artifactId>
>>>>>>>  <packaging>jar</packaging>
>>>>>>>-  <name>Tobago theme richmond</name>
>>>>>>>+  <name>Tobago theme Richmond</name>
>>>>>>>  <build>
>>>>>>>    <plugins>
>>>>>>>      <plugin>
>>>>>>>@@ -75,7 +75,7 @@
>>>>>>>      </exclusions>
>>>>>>>    </dependency>
>>>>>>>    <dependency>
>>>>>>>-       <groupId>javax.servlet</groupId>
>>>>>>>+      <groupId>javax.servlet</groupId>
>>>>>>>      <artifactId>servlet-api</artifactId>
>>>>>>>      <version>2.3</version>
>>>>>>>      <scope>provided</scope>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>--
>>
>>http://www.irian.at
>>
>>Your JSF powerhouse -
>>JSF Consulting, Development and
>>Courses in English and German
>>
>>Professional Support for Apache MyFaces
>>
>>    
>>
>
>  
>


-- 
Jacob Hookom - Minneapolis
--------------------------
http://hookom.blogspot.com


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