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From Sheng Zha <zhash...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Stopping nightly releases to Pypi
Date Fri, 10 Jan 2020 11:05:19 GMT
Size of a change doesn't necessarily reflect the time one spends on the navigating the code
base and finding the solution. Also, I tend to believe that everyone genuinely wants what's
best for the project, just from different perspectives.

Let's focus on improving the CD solution so that security concerns can be addressed too.

-sz

On 2020/01/09 21:57:30, Chris Olivier <cjolivier01@apache.org> wrote: 
> If this tiny fix is representative of the bulk of the reasoning behind all
> the the CD churn recently, then this seems to be of some concern.
> 
> -Chris
> 
> On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 6:32 AM Marco de Abreu <marco.g.abreu@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > Great, thanks a lot sheng!
> >
> > -Marco
> >
> > Sheng Zha <zhasheng@apache.org> schrieb am Do., 9. Jan. 2020, 14:28:
> >
> > > I'm fixing the CD pipeline in
> > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/17259/files and will
> > > update the s3 publish path so that it's friendly for automatically
> > > generating such page.
> > >
> > > -sz
> > >
> > > On 2020/01/06 18:19:52, "Lausen, Leonard" <lausen@amazon.com.INVALID>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Consider a user finds a bug in a nightly version but we can't narrow
> > > down the
> > > > version of mxnet used as the name is constant over time. Or users wan't
> > > to
> > > > revert back to the previous nightly version installed but don't know
> > > which date
> > > > it was from due to constant name.
> > > >
> > > > Instead I suggest we introduce an autogenerated page like
> > > > https://download.pytorch.org/whl/nightly/cu101/torch_nightly.html
> > > >
> > > > Then "pip install -f URLTOPAGE mxnet" will install the latest available
> > > version.
> > > > Maybe the team maintaining the S3 bucket can reconsider creating such
> > > page for
> > > > the intermediate time until the CD based nighlty build is operating.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 2020-01-06 at 10:01 -0800, Lin Yuan wrote:
> > > > > +1 for a nightly pip with fixed name.
> > > > >
> > > > > We need this to track mxnet integration with other packages such
as
> > > Horovod.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sam, when do you think we can have this nightly build with a fixed
> > > name?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Lin
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Jan 5, 2020 at 7:48 PM Skalicky, Sam
> > > <sskalic@amazon.com.invalid>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Tao,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We dont have this yet, but we did think about putting the latest
> > > wheels in
> > > > > > a specific place in the s3 bucket so they are always updated.
> > > Initially we
> > > > > > decided not to do this since the main MXNet CD should have been
> > > fixed. But
> > > > > > since its still not fixed yet, we might try and go ahead and
do
> > this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sam
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Jan 5, 2020, at 6:02 PM, Lv, Tao A <tao.a.lv@intel.com<mailto:
> > > > > > tao.a.lv@intel.com>> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How to install the latest available build of a flavor without
> > > specifying
> > > > > > the build date? Something like `pip install mxnet --pre`.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > -tao
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Skalicky, Sam <sskalic@amazon.com.INVALID<mailto:
> > > > > > sskalic@amazon.com.INVALID>>
> > > > > > Sent: Monday, January 6, 2020 2:09 AM
> > > > > > To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org<mailto:
> > > dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org>
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Stopping nightly releases to Pypi
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Haibin,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You typed the correct URLs, the cu100 build has been failing
since
> > > > > > December 30th but other builds have succeeded. The wheels are
being
> > > > > > delivered into a public bucket that anyone with an AWS account
can
> > > access
> > > > > > and go poke around, here’s the URL for web access:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://s3.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/apache-mxnet/dist/2020-01-01/dist/?region=us-west-2&tab=overview
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You will have to log into your AWS account to access it however
> > > (which
> > > > > > means you’ll need an AWS account).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It looks like only the following flavors are available for
> > > 2020-01-01:
> > > > > > mxnet
> > > > > > mxnet-cu92
> > > > > > mxnet-cu92mkl
> > > > > > mxnet-mkl
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sam
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Jan 4, 2020, at 9:06 PM, Haibin Lin <haibin.lin.aws@gmail.com
> > > <mailto:
> > > > > > haibin.lin.aws@gmail.com><mailto:haibin.lin.aws@gmail.com>>
wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I was trying the nightly builds, but none of them is available:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > pip3 install
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2020-01-01/dist/mxnet_cu100-1.6.0b20200101-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > > --user
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2020-01-01/dist/mxnet_cu100-1.6.0b20200101-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl--user
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > pip3 install
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2020-01-02/dist/mxnet_cu100-1.6.0b20200102-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > > --user
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2020-01-02/dist/mxnet_cu100-1.6.0b20200102-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl--user
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > pip3 install
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2020-01-03/dist/mxnet_cu100-1.6.0b20200103-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > > --user
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2020-01-03/dist/mxnet_cu100-1.6.0b20200103-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl--user
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > pip3 install
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2020-01-04/dist/mxnet_cu100-1.6.0b20200104-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > > --user
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2020-01-04/dist/mxnet_cu100-1.6.0b20200104-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl--user
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ERROR: Could not install requirement mxnet-cu100==1.6.0b20200103
> > from
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2020-01-03/dist/mxnet_cu100-1.6.0b20200103-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > > because of HTTP error 404 Client Error: Not Found for url:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2020-01-03/dist/mxnet_cu100-1.6.0b20200103-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > > for URL
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2020-01-03/dist/mxnet_cu100-1.6.0b20200103-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please let me know if I typed wrong URLs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. The discoverability of available nightly builds needs
> > > improvement. If
> > > > > > someone can help write a script to list all links that exist,
that
> > > would be
> > > > > > very helpful.
> > > > > > 2. If any nightly build is not built successfully, how do the
> > > community
> > > > > > know the reason of the failure, and potentially offer helps?
> > > Currently I
> > > > > > don't have much visibility of the nightly build status.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > Haibin
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 5:47 PM Pedro Larroy <
> > > pedro.larroy.lists@gmail.com
> > > > > > <mailto:pedro.larroy.lists@gmail.com>>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just to clarify, the current CI is quite an overhead to maintain
> > for
> > > > > > several reasons, this complexity is overkill for CD. Jenkins
also
> > has
> > > > > > constant plugin upgrades, security vulnerabilities, has to be
> > > restarted
> > > > > > from time to time as it stops working... and to make binary
builds
> > > from an
> > > > > > environment which runs unsafe code, I don't think is good practice.
> > > So for
> > > > > > that, having a separate Jenkins, CodeBuild, Drone or using a
> > separate
> > > > > > Jenkins node is the right solution. Agree with you that is just
a
> > > > > > scheduler, but somebody is making efforts to keep it running.
If
> > you
> > > have
> > > > > > the appetite and resources to duplicate it for CD please go
ahead.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 3:25 PM Marco de Abreu <
> > > marco.g.abreu@gmail.com
> > > > > > <mailto:marco.g.abreu@gmail.com>>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regarding your point of finding somebody to maintain the solution:
> > At
> > > > > > Apache we usually retire things if there's no maintainer, since
> > that
> > > > > > indicates that the feature/system is not of enough interest
to
> > > warrant
> > > > > > maintenance - otherwise, someone would step up.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While assistance in the form of a fix is always appreciated,
the
> > fix
> > > still
> > > > > > has to conform with the way this project and Apache operates.
Next
> > > time I'd
> > > > > > recommend to contribute time on improving the existing community
> > > solution
> > > > > > instead of developing an internal system.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Marco
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Marco de Abreu <marco.g.abreu@gmail.com<mailto:
> > > marco.g.abreu@gmail.com>>
> > > > > > schrieb am Sa., 4. Jan. 2020,
> > > > > > 00:21:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sam, while I understand that this solution was developed out
of
> > > necessity,
> > > > > > my question why a new system has been developed instead of fixing
> > the
> > > > > > existing one or adapting the solution. CodeBuild is a scheduler
in
> > > the same
> > > > > > fashion as Jenkins is. It runs code. So you can adapt it to
Jenkins
> > > without
> > > > > > much hassle.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not volunteering for this - why should I? The role of a
PMC
> > > member is
> > > > > > to steer the direction of the project. Just because a manager
> > points
> > > > > > towards a certain direction, if doesn't mean that they're going
to
> > > do it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Apparently there was enough time at some point to develop a
new
> > > solution
> > > > > > from scratch. It might have been a solution for your internal
team
> > > and
> > > > > > that's fine, but upgrading it "temporarily" to be the advertised
> > way
> > > on the
> > > > > > official website is something different.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I won't argue about how the veto can be enforced. I think it's
in
> > > the best
> > > > > > interest of the project if we try working on a solution instead
of
> > > spending
> > > > > > time on trying to figure out the power of the PMC.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pedro, that's certainly a step towards the right direction.
But
> > > committers
> > > > > > would also need access to the control plane of the system -
to
> > > trigger,
> > > > > > stop and audit builds. We could go down that road, but i think
the
> > > fewer
> > > > > > systems, the better - also for the sake of maintainability.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > Marco
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pedro Larroy <pedro.larroy.lists@gmail.com<mailto:
> > > > > > pedro.larroy.lists@gmail.com>> schrieb am Fr., 3. Jan.
> > > > > > 2020,
> > > > > > 20:55:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not involved in such efforts, but one possibility is to
have
> > the
> > > yaml
> > > > > > files that describe the pipelines for CD in the Apache
> > repositories,
> > > would
> > > > > > that be acceptable from the Apache POV? In the end they should
be
> > > very thin
> > > > > > and calling the scripts that are part of the CD packages.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Jan 3, 2020 at 6:56 AM Marco de Abreu <
> > > marco.g.abreu@gmail.com
> > > > > > <mailto:marco.g.abreu@gmail.com>>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Agree, but the question how a non Amazonian is able to maintain
and
> > > access
> > > > > > the system is still open. As it stands right now, the community
has
> > > taken a
> > > > > > step back and loses some control if we continue down that road.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I personally am disapproving of that approach since committers
are
> > no
> > > > > > longer in control of that process. So far it seems like my
> > questions
> > > were
> > > > > > skipped and further actions have been taken. As openness and
the
> > > community
> > > > > > having control are part of our graduation criteria, I'm putting
in
> > > my veto
> > > > > > with a grace period until 15th of January. Please bring the
system
> > > into a
> > > > > > state that aligns with Apache values or revert the changes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Marco
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pedro Larroy <pedro.larroy.lists@gmail.com<mailto:
> > > > > > pedro.larroy.lists@gmail.com>> schrieb am Fr., 3. Jan.
> > > > > > 2020,
> > > > > > 03:33:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > CD should be separate from CI for security reasons in any case.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 10:04 AM Marco de Abreu <
> > > marco.g.abreu@gmail.com
> > > > > > <mailto:marco.g.abreu@gmail.com>>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Could you elaborate how a non-Amazonian is able to access, maintain
> > > and
> > > > > > review the CodeBuild pipeline? How come we've diverted from
the
> > > community
> > > > > > agreed-on standard where the public Jenkins serves for the purpose
> > of
> > > > > > testing and releasing MXNet? I'd be curious about the issues
you're
> > > > > > encountering with Jenkins CI that led to a non-standard solution.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Marco
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Skalicky, Sam <sskalic@amazon.com.invalid<mailto:
> > > > > > sskalic@amazon.com.invalid>> schrieb am Sa., 7.
> > > > > > Dez.
> > > > > > 2019,
> > > > > > 18:39:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi MXNet Community,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We have been working on getting nightly builds fixed and made
> > > available
> > > > > > again. We’ve made another system using AWS CodeBuild &
S3 to work
> > > around
> > > > > > the problems with Jenkins CI, PyPI, etc. It is currently building
> > > all the
> > > > > > flavors and publishing to an S3 bucket here:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://us-west-2.console.aws.amazon.com/s3/buckets/apache-mxnet/dist/?region=us-west-2
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There are folders for each set of nightly builds, try out the
> > wheels
> > > > > > starting today 2019-12-07. Builds start at 1:30am PT (9:30am
> > > > > > GMT)
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > arrive in the bucket 30min-2hours later. Inside each folder
are the
> > > wheels
> > > > > > for each flavor of MXNet. Currently we’re only building for
linux,
> > > builds
> > > > > > for windows/Mac will come later.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you want to download the wheels easily you can use a URL
in the
> > > form
> > > > > > of:
> > > > > > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <YYYY-MM-DD>/dist/<mxnet_build>-1.6.0b<YYYYMMDD>-py2.py3-none-
> > > > > > manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Heres a set of links for today’s builds
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (Plain mxnet, no mkl no cuda)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2019-12-07/dist/mxnet-1.6.0b20191207-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > > (mxnet-mkl
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2019-12-07/dist/mxnet-1.6.0b20191207-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl(mxnet-mkl
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2019-12-07/dist/mxnet-1.6.0b20191207-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl(mxnet-mkl
> > > > > >
> > > > > > )
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2019-12-07/dist/mxnet_mkl-1.6.0b20191207-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > > (mxnet-cuXXX
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2019-12-07/dist/mxnet_mkl-1.6.0b20191207-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl(mxnet-cuXXX
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2019-12-07/dist/mxnet_mkl-1.6.0b20191207-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl(mxnet-cuXXX
> > > > > >
> > > > > > )
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2019-12-07/dist/mxnet_cu90-1.6.0b20191207-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2019-12-07/dist/mxnet_cu92-1.6.0b20191207-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2019-12-07/dist/mxnet_cu100-1.6.0b20191207-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2019-12-07/dist/mxnet_cu101-1.6.0b20191207-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > > (mxnet-cuXXXmkl
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2019-12-07/dist/mxnet_cu101-1.6.0b20191207-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl(mxnet-cuXXXmkl
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2019-12-07/dist/mxnet_cu101-1.6.0b20191207-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl(mxnet-cuXXXmkl
> > > > > >
> > > > > > )
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2019-12-07/dist/mxnet_cu90mkl-1.6.0b20191207-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2019-12-07/dist/mxnet_cu92mkl-1.6.0b20191207-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2019-12-07/dist/mxnet_cu100mkl-1.6.0b20191207-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2019-12-07/dist/mxnet_cu101mkl-1.6.0b20191207-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You can easily install these pip wheels in your system either
by
> > > > > > downloading them to your machine first and then installing by
> > > > > > doing:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > pip install /path/to/downloaded/wheel.whl
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Or you can install directly by just giving the link to pip like
> > > > > > this:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > pip install
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://apache-mxnet.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dist/2019-12-07/dist/mxnet-1.6.0b20191207-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Credit goes to everyone involved (in no particular order) Rakesh
> > > Vasudevan
> > > > > > Zach Kimberg Manu Seth Sheng Zha Jun Wu Pedro Larroy Chaitanya
> > Bapat
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > > Sam
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Dec 5, 2019, at 1:16 AM, Lausen, Leonard
> > > <lausen@amazon.com.INVALID
> > > > > > <mailto:lausen@amazon.com.INVALID> <mailto:
> > lausen@amazon.com.INVALID
> > > >>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We don't loose pip by hosting on S3. We just don't host nightly
> > > releases
> > > > > > on Pypi servers and mirror them to several hundred mirrors
> > > immediately
> > > > > > after each build is published which is very expensive for the
Pypi
> > > project..
> > > > > > People
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > still
> > > > > > install the nightly builds with pip by specifying the -f option.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Uploading weekly releases to Pypi will reduce the cost for Pypi
by
> > > ~75%
> > > > > > [1]. It may be acceptable to Pypi, but does it make sense for
us?
> > > I'm not
> > > > > > convinced weekly release on Pypi is a good idea. Consider one
> > > release is
> > > > > > buggy, users will need to wait for 7 days for a fix. It doesn't
> > > provide
> > > > > > good user experience.
> > > > > > If someone has a stronger conviction about the value of weekly
> > > releases on
> > > > > > Pypi, that person shall please go ahead and propose it in a
> > separate
> > > > > > discussion thread.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Currently we don't have generally working nightly builds to
Pypi
> > and
> > > as a
> > > > > > matter of fact we know that we can't have them due to Pypi's
policy
> > > and our
> > > > > > apparent need for large binaries. Given this fact and that no
> > > objection was
> > > > > > raised by
> > > > > > 2019-12-05 at 05:42 UTC, I conclude we have lazy consensus on
> > > stopping
> > > > > > upload attempts of nightly builds to Pypi.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With consensus established, we can change the CI job to stop
trying
> > > to
> > > > > > upload the nightly builds and then request Pypi to increase
the
> > > limit.
> > > > > > Then
> > > > > > we
> > > > > > have one
> > > > > > less blocker for the 1.6 release.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards
> > > > > > Leonard
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]: Lower cost due to less releases, but higher cost due to
500MB
> > ->
> > > > > > 800MB limit increase. Assuming that the limit increase translates
> > > into
> > > > > > actually larger binaries.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, 2019-12-04 at 22:20 +0100, Marco de Abreu wrote:
> > > > > > Are weekly releases an option? It was brought up as concern
that we
> > > might
> > > > > > lose pip as a pretty common distribution channel where people
> > consume
> > > > > > nightly builds. I don't feel like that concern has been properly
> > > addressed
> > > > > > so far.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Marco
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Lausen, Leonard <lausen@amazon.com.invalid<mailto:
> > > > > > lausen@amazon.com.invalid><mailto:
> > > > > > lausen@amazon.com.invalid<mailto:lausen@amazon.com.invalid>>>
> > > schrieb am
> > > > > > Mi., 4. Dez. 2019,
> > > > > > 04:09:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As a simple POC to test distribution, you can try installing
MXNet
> > > based
> > > > > > on these 3 URLs:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > pip install --no-cache-dir
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://mxnet-dev.s3.amazonaws.com/mxnet_cu101-1.5.1.post0-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > > pip install --no-cache-dir
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://mxnet-dev.s3-accelerate.amazonaws.com/mxnet_cu101-1.5.1.post0-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > > pip install --no-cache-dir
> > > > > > https://d19zq12jzu4w95.cloudfront.net/
> > > > > > mxnet_cu101-1.5.1.post0-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://d19zq12jzu4w95.cloudfront.net/mxnet_cu101-1.5.1.post0-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > https://d19zq12jzu4w95.cloudfront.net/mxnet_cu101-1.5.1.post0-py2.py3-none-manylinux1_x86_64.whl
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > where --no-cache-dir prevents caching the downloaded file, for
the
> > > purpose
> > > > > > of testing. (cu101 chosen based on large size)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The first URL uses standard S3 bucket in US. The second uses
> > > > > > S3
> > > > > > Accelerate
> > > > > > based
> > > > > > on CloudFront CDN. And the third uses CloudFront CDN. I'm adding
> > the
> > > third
> > > > > > URL, as S3 Accelerate may or may not use all new CloudFront
> > > endpoints yet.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regarding voting: Uploading to Pypi is currently impossible,
which
> > > is a
> > > > > > reality (so there is no option to continue as we do currently).
> > Pypi
> > > folks
> > > > > > indicated they will unblock our uploads to Pypi once we stop
> > > uploading
> > > > > > nightly releases and taking up 20% of their ressources [1].
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If there are any shortcomings or problems identified with uploading
> > > to S3,
> > > > > > we can work to address them. But for now, status quo is broken
and
> > > this
> > > > > > seems the only solution addressing Pypi's problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't mind if you state that you object to lazy consensus
and
> > > start a
> > > > > > vote. If your "maybe [...] start a proper vote" was supposed
to be
> > an
> > > > > > objection to lazy consensus, please state so clearly (I'm not
sure
> > if
> > > > > > "maybe"
> > > > > > qualifies
> > > > > > as
> > > > > > objection). Though I think it only makes sense with at least
2
> > > options to
> > > > > > vote on. Status quo is not a meaningful option, as it is already
> > > broken.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards
> > > > > > Leonard
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > https://github.com/pypa/pypi-support/issues/50#issuecomment-560479706
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, 2019-12-03 at 19:28 +0100, Marco de Abreu wrote:
> > > > > > Excellent! Could we maybe come up with a POC and a quick writeup
> > and
> > > then
> > > > > > start a proper vote after everyone verified that it covers their
> > > use-cases?
> > > > > > -Marco
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sheng Zha <zhasheng@apache.org<mailto:zhasheng@apache.org>>
> > schrieb
> > > am
> > > > > > Di., 3. Dez. 2019,
> > > > > > 19:24:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, there is. We can also make it easier to access by using
a
> > > > > > geo-location based DNS server so that China users are directed
to
> > > that
> > > > > > local mirror. The rest of the world is already covered by the
> > global
> > > > > > cloudfront.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -sz
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 2019/12/03 18:22:22, Marco de Abreu < marco.g.abreu@gmail.com
> > > <mailto:
> > > > > > marco.g.abreu@gmail.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Isn't there an s3 endpoint in Beijing?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It seems like this topic still warrants some discussion and
thus
> > I'd
> > > > > >
> > > > > > prefer
> > > > > > if we don't move forward with lazy consensus.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Marco
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tao Lv <mutouorz@gmail.com<mailto:mutouorz@gmail.com>>
schrieb am
> > > Di., 3.
> > > > > > Dez. 2019,
> > > > > > 14:31:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * For pypi, we can use mirrors.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 9:28 PM Tao Lv <mutouorz@gmail.com<mailto:
> > > > > > mutouorz@gmail.com>>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As we have many users in China, I'm considering the accessibility
> > of
> > > S3.
> > > > > > For pip, we can mirrors.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Dec 3, 2019 at 3:24 PM Lausen, Leonard
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <lausen@amazon.com.invalid<mailto:lausen@amazon.com.invalid>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would like to remind everyone that lazy consensus is assumed
if
> > no
> > > > > > objections are raised before 2019-12-05 at 05:42 UTC. There
has
> > been
> > > some
> > > > > >
> > > > > > discussion
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > the proposal, but to my understanding no objections were raised.
> > > > > > If the proposal is accepted, MXNet releases would be installed
via
> > > pip
> > > > > > install mxnet
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And release candidates via
> > > > > >
> > > > > > pip install --pre mxnet
> > > > > >
> > > > > > (or with the respective cuda version specifier appended etc.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To obtain releases built automatically from the master branch,
> > users
> > > would
> > > > > > need to specify something like "-f
> > > > > > http://mxnet.s3.amazonaws.com/mxnet-X/nightly.html" option to
pip.
> > > > > > Best regards
> > > > > > Leonard
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, 2019-12-02 at 05:42 +0000, Lausen, Leonard wrote:
> > > > > > Hi MXNet Community,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > since more than 2 months our binary Python nightly releases
> > > > > >
> > > > > > published
> > > > > > on Pypi
> > > > > > are broken. The problem is that our binaries exceed Pypi's size
> > > limit.
> > > > > > Decreasing the binary size by adding compression breaks
> > > > > >
> > > > > > third-party
> > > > > > libraries
> > > > > > loading libmxnet.so
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/16193
> > > > > > Sheng requested Pypi to increase their size limit:
> > > > > > https://github.com/pypa/pypi-support/issues/50
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Currently "the biggest cost for PyPI from [the many MXNet binaries
> > > with
> > > > > > nightly release to Pypi] is the bandwidth consumed when several
> > > hundred
> > > > > > mirrors attempt to mirror each release immediately after it's
> > > published".
> > > > > > So Pypi is not inclined to allow us to upload even larger binaries
> > > on a
> > > > > > nightly schedule.
> > > > > > Their compromise is to allow it on a weekly cadence.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > However, I would like the community to revisit the necessity
of
> > > releasing
> > > > > > pre- release binaries to Pypi on a nightly (or weekly) cadence.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Instead, we
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > release nightly binaries ONLY to a public S3 bucket and instruct
> > > users to
> > > > > > install from there. On our side, we only need to prepare a html
> > > document
> > > > > > that contains links to all released nightly binaries.
> > > > > > Finally users will install the nightly releases via
> > > > > >
> > > > > > pip install --pre mxnet-cu101 -f
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://mxnet.s3.amazonaws.com/mxnet-cu101/
> > > > > > nightly.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Instead of
> > > > > >
> > > > > > pip install --pre mxnet-cu101
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Of course proper releases and release candidates should still
be
> > made
> > > > > > available via Pypi. Thus releases would be installed via
> > > > > >
> > > > > > pip install mxnet-cu101
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And release candidates via
> > > > > >
> > > > > > pip install --pre mxnet-cu101
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This will substantially reduce the costs of the Pypi project
and in
> > > fact
> > > > > > matches the installation experience provided by PyTorch. I don't
> > > think the
> > > > > > benefit of not including "-f
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://mxnet.s3.amazonaws.com/mxnet-cu101/nightly.html"
> > > > > > matches the costs we currently externalize to the Pypi team.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This suggestion seems uncontroversial to me. Thus I would like
to
> > > start
> > > > > > lazy consensus. If there are no objections, I will assume lazy
> > > > > >
> > > > > > consensus on
> > > > > > stopping
> > > > > > nightly releases to Pypi in 72hrs.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards
> > > > > > Leonard
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 

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