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From Junru Shao <junrushao1...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Rebrand Gluon to MXNet imperative or something MXNet.
Date Sat, 23 Mar 2019 01:26:57 GMT
@Lin I believe that the way to build a healthy community is to make both
customers and developers happy. In this case, I feel like the more
important thing about toolkits is to explain how useful they are to our
customers, rather than positions, components or anything else.

As I mentioned above, the usefulness comes from two aspects (at least).

1) they provide state-of-the-art models and training techniques
out-of-the-box. If our customers want inference only, we have model zoo; If
our customers want to train on their own dataset, we have awesome training
tricks enclosed.

2) it provides exemplary codebase for anyone who wants to use Gluon
elegantly. It does help a lot for real-world development, compared with
simplest examples like tutorial.


On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 6:07 PM Junru Shao <junrushao1994@gmail.com> wrote:

> Probably we should figure out how to explain MXNet Gluon to customers. In
> this case, I agree with @Mu that
>
> 1) MXNet Gluon provides high-level API like what Keras gives to TensorFlow.
>
> 2) MXNet Gluon supports hybridization, which unifies both symbolic and
> imperative programming style.
>
> Also, about toolkits, we could mention
>
> 3) GluonNLP and GluonCV are two awesome libraries in their respective
> domain, both of which are built on MXNet Gluon. They not only provide an
> awesome exemplary codebase for customers to learn the best way to use MXNet
> Gluon, but also come with the state-of-the-art models and training
> techniques out-of-the-box.
>
> Any other ideas?
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 5:54 PM Pedro Larroy <pedro.larroy.lists@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> +1 to MXNet Gluon given the feedbacks and explanations from everyone so
>> far.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 5:09 PM Junru Shao <junrushao1994@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I feel like MXNet Gluon is a good name. You don't lose customers who
>> have
>> > been familiar with MXNet, nor lose customers who are used to MXNet
>> symbolic.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 5:07 PM Davydenko, Denis <
>> > dzianis.davydzenka@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > As subject suggests this is a proposal for re-branding of Gluon to
>> align
>> > > it with MXNet. One of the common things undertaken for re-branding
>> > > exercises is renaming. That's what my thinking behind suggesting new
>> name
>> > > for Gluon. I am sincerely curious what would be alternatives to
>> rebrand
>> > > Gluon to align it with MXNet without changing its name.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On 3/22/19, 4:57 PM, "Mu Li" <muli.cmu@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >     Are you proposing to rename Gluon? I think Pedro's opinion is
>> about a
>> > >     better way to communicate what's Gluon and how it's related to
>> MXNet.
>> > >
>> > >     On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 4:54 PM Davydenko, Denis
>> > > <dden@amazon.com.invalid>
>> > >     wrote:
>> > >
>> > >     > I support idea of putting brands of MXNet and Gluon closer
>> together.
>> > > I
>> > >     > agree with your argument, Mu, but MXNet is quite far away from
>> TF
>> > > place at
>> > >     > this time so I don’t know how well that argument is transferable
>> > > from TF
>> > >     > position to MXNet position.
>> > >     >
>> > >     > MXNet Imperative is definitely too restrictive of a name, we can
>> > > come up
>> > >     > with better one... MXNet-M for example, stands for
>> MXNet-Modified
>> > > (military
>> > >     > connotation). If naming is the only thing we need to figure out
>> -
>> > > that is a
>> > >     > good place to be in __
>> > >     >
>> > >     > --
>> > >     > Thanks,
>> > >     > Denis
>> > >     >
>> > >     > On 3/22/19, 4:48 PM, "Mu Li" <muli.cmu@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > >     >
>> > >     >     Gluon is about imperative neural network training and data
>> > > loading.
>> > >     > ndarray
>> > >     >     is another large imperative module. Besides, Gluon also
>> supports
>> > >     > symbolic
>> > >     >     execution after hybridizing.  mxnet imperative might not be
>> a
>> > > good
>> > >     > name for
>> > >     >     it. Another choice is high-level API, that's how TF talks
>> about
>> > > Keras.
>> > >     >
>> > >     >     On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 4:38 PM Yuan Tang <
>> > > terrytangyuan@gmail.com>
>> > >     > wrote:
>> > >     >
>> > >     >     > +1
>> > >     >     >
>> > >     >     > On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 7:29 PM Lin Yuan <
>> apeforest@gmail.com>
>> > >     > wrote:
>> > >     >     >
>> > >     >     > > +1.
>> > >     >     > >
>> > >     >     > > Just to give some of my real experience:
>> > >     >     > > 1) I advertised a recent GluonNLP blog and many
>> responses are
>> > >     > "This seems
>> > >     >     > > nice. So is Gluon a new library to replace MXNet?"
>> > >     >     > > 2) We visited customers in a unicorn company who
showed
>> > > interests
>> > >     > in
>> > >     >     > MXNet
>> > >     >     > > but none of the engineers knew the relationship
between
>> > >     > GluonNLP/GluonCV
>> > >     >     > > and MXNet
>> > >     >     > > 3) When integrating MXNet to Horovod and adding
>> examples, I
>> > >     > received
>> > >     >     > > comments like "What is Gluon? Is it a new library
in
>> > > addition to
>> > >     > MXNet?"
>> > >     >     > >
>> > >     >     > > Everyone is talking about PyTorch nowadays, but
not
>> Caffe2
>> > > anymore
>> > >     >     > although
>> > >     >     > > the latter is still serving as a backend component.
>> Maybe we
>> > >     > should also
>> > >     >     > > doubledown on one brand?
>> > >     >     > >
>> > >     >     > > Lin
>> > >     >     > >
>> > >     >     > > On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 4:02 PM Pedro Larroy <
>> > >     >     > pedro.larroy.lists@gmail.com
>> > >     >     > > >
>> > >     >     > > wrote:
>> > >     >     > >
>> > >     >     > > > Hi dev@
>> > >     >     > > >
>> > >     >     > > > We heard feedback from users that the Gluon
name is
>> > > confusing.
>> > >     > Some of
>> > >     >     > > > them don't even know it's MXNet and it's unclear
the
>> > >     > relationship with
>> > >     >     > > > MXNet
>> > >     >     > > >
>> > >     >     > > > Would it make sense to rebrand Gluon to just
MXNet or
>> MXNet
>> > >     >     > > > imperative? Diluting brands and names is never
a good
>> idea.
>> > >     >     > > >
>> > >     >     > > > There's also gluonhq which is related to JavaFX
which
>> adds
>> > > to the
>> > >     >     > > > confusion, search engine friendliness is not
high as
>> well.
>> > >     >     > > >
>> > >     >     > > > Pedro.
>> > >     >     > > >
>> > >     >     > >
>> > >     >     >
>> > >     >
>> > >     >
>> > >     >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>

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