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From Lin Yuan <apefor...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Rebrand Gluon to MXNet imperative or something MXNet.
Date Sat, 23 Mar 2019 01:37:17 GMT
@Junru I fully agree with what you said. What I meant is we need to make
more customers know about them.

Lin

On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 6:34 PM Junru Shao <junrushao1994@gmail.com> wrote:

> @Lin I believe that the way to build a healthy community is to make both
> customers and developers happy. In this case, I feel like the more
> important thing about toolkits is to explain how useful they are to our
> customers, rather than positions, components or anything else.
>
> As I mentioned above, the usefulness comes from two aspects (at least).
>
> 1) they provide state-of-the-art models and training techniques
> out-of-the-box. If our customers want inference only, we have model zoo; If
> our customers want to train on their own dataset, we have awesome training
> tricks enclosed.
>
> 2) it provides exemplary codebase for anyone who wants to use Gluon
> elegantly. It does help a lot for real-world development, compared with
> simplest examples like tutorial.
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 6:07 PM Junru Shao <junrushao1994@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Probably we should figure out how to explain MXNet Gluon to customers. In
> > this case, I agree with @Mu that
> >
> > 1) MXNet Gluon provides high-level API like what Keras gives to
> TensorFlow.
> >
> > 2) MXNet Gluon supports hybridization, which unifies both symbolic and
> > imperative programming style.
> >
> > Also, about toolkits, we could mention
> >
> > 3) GluonNLP and GluonCV are two awesome libraries in their respective
> > domain, both of which are built on MXNet Gluon. They not only provide an
> > awesome exemplary codebase for customers to learn the best way to use
> MXNet
> > Gluon, but also come with the state-of-the-art models and training
> > techniques out-of-the-box.
> >
> > Any other ideas?
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 5:54 PM Pedro Larroy <
> pedro.larroy.lists@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> +1 to MXNet Gluon given the feedbacks and explanations from everyone so
> >> far.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 5:09 PM Junru Shao <junrushao1994@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I feel like MXNet Gluon is a good name. You don't lose customers who
> >> have
> >> > been familiar with MXNet, nor lose customers who are used to MXNet
> >> symbolic.
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 5:07 PM Davydenko, Denis <
> >> > dzianis.davydzenka@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > As subject suggests this is a proposal for re-branding of Gluon to
> >> align
> >> > > it with MXNet. One of the common things undertaken for re-branding
> >> > > exercises is renaming. That's what my thinking behind suggesting new
> >> name
> >> > > for Gluon. I am sincerely curious what would be alternatives to
> >> rebrand
> >> > > Gluon to align it with MXNet without changing its name.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On 3/22/19, 4:57 PM, "Mu Li" <muli.cmu@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >     Are you proposing to rename Gluon? I think Pedro's opinion is
> >> about a
> >> > >     better way to communicate what's Gluon and how it's related to
> >> MXNet.
> >> > >
> >> > >     On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 4:54 PM Davydenko, Denis
> >> > > <dden@amazon.com.invalid>
> >> > >     wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >     > I support idea of putting brands of MXNet and Gluon closer
> >> together.
> >> > > I
> >> > >     > agree with your argument, Mu, but MXNet is quite far away
from
> >> TF
> >> > > place at
> >> > >     > this time so I don’t know how well that argument is
> transferable
> >> > > from TF
> >> > >     > position to MXNet position.
> >> > >     >
> >> > >     > MXNet Imperative is definitely too restrictive of a name,
we
> can
> >> > > come up
> >> > >     > with better one... MXNet-M for example, stands for
> >> MXNet-Modified
> >> > > (military
> >> > >     > connotation). If naming is the only thing we need to figure
> out
> >> -
> >> > > that is a
> >> > >     > good place to be in __
> >> > >     >
> >> > >     > --
> >> > >     > Thanks,
> >> > >     > Denis
> >> > >     >
> >> > >     > On 3/22/19, 4:48 PM, "Mu Li" <muli.cmu@gmail.com>
wrote:
> >> > >     >
> >> > >     >     Gluon is about imperative neural network training and
data
> >> > > loading.
> >> > >     > ndarray
> >> > >     >     is another large imperative module. Besides, Gluon also
> >> supports
> >> > >     > symbolic
> >> > >     >     execution after hybridizing.  mxnet imperative might
not
> be
> >> a
> >> > > good
> >> > >     > name for
> >> > >     >     it. Another choice is high-level API, that's how TF talks
> >> about
> >> > > Keras.
> >> > >     >
> >> > >     >     On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 4:38 PM Yuan Tang <
> >> > > terrytangyuan@gmail.com>
> >> > >     > wrote:
> >> > >     >
> >> > >     >     > +1
> >> > >     >     >
> >> > >     >     > On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 7:29 PM Lin Yuan <
> >> apeforest@gmail.com>
> >> > >     > wrote:
> >> > >     >     >
> >> > >     >     > > +1.
> >> > >     >     > >
> >> > >     >     > > Just to give some of my real experience:
> >> > >     >     > > 1) I advertised a recent GluonNLP blog and
many
> >> responses are
> >> > >     > "This seems
> >> > >     >     > > nice. So is Gluon a new library to replace
MXNet?"
> >> > >     >     > > 2) We visited customers in a unicorn company
who
> showed
> >> > > interests
> >> > >     > in
> >> > >     >     > MXNet
> >> > >     >     > > but none of the engineers knew the relationship
> between
> >> > >     > GluonNLP/GluonCV
> >> > >     >     > > and MXNet
> >> > >     >     > > 3) When integrating MXNet to Horovod and adding
> >> examples, I
> >> > >     > received
> >> > >     >     > > comments like "What is Gluon? Is it a new library
in
> >> > > addition to
> >> > >     > MXNet?"
> >> > >     >     > >
> >> > >     >     > > Everyone is talking about PyTorch nowadays,
but not
> >> Caffe2
> >> > > anymore
> >> > >     >     > although
> >> > >     >     > > the latter is still serving as a backend component.
> >> Maybe we
> >> > >     > should also
> >> > >     >     > > doubledown on one brand?
> >> > >     >     > >
> >> > >     >     > > Lin
> >> > >     >     > >
> >> > >     >     > > On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 4:02 PM Pedro Larroy
<
> >> > >     >     > pedro.larroy.lists@gmail.com
> >> > >     >     > > >
> >> > >     >     > > wrote:
> >> > >     >     > >
> >> > >     >     > > > Hi dev@
> >> > >     >     > > >
> >> > >     >     > > > We heard feedback from users that the
Gluon name is
> >> > > confusing.
> >> > >     > Some of
> >> > >     >     > > > them don't even know it's MXNet and it's
unclear the
> >> > >     > relationship with
> >> > >     >     > > > MXNet
> >> > >     >     > > >
> >> > >     >     > > > Would it make sense to rebrand Gluon to
just MXNet
> or
> >> MXNet
> >> > >     >     > > > imperative? Diluting brands and names
is never a
> good
> >> idea.
> >> > >     >     > > >
> >> > >     >     > > > There's also gluonhq which is related
to JavaFX
> which
> >> adds
> >> > > to the
> >> > >     >     > > > confusion, search engine friendliness
is not high as
> >> well.
> >> > >     >     > > >
> >> > >     >     > > > Pedro.
> >> > >     >     > > >
> >> > >     >     > >
> >> > >     >     >
> >> > >     >
> >> > >     >
> >> > >     >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >>
> >
>

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