From dev-return-4427-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@mxnet.incubator.apache.org Thu Oct 11 07:21:10 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id 06CA518064A for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 07:21:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 59438 invoked by uid 500); 11 Oct 2018 05:21:09 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@mxnet.incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 59420 invoked by uid 99); 11 Oct 2018 05:21:08 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd1-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:21:08 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd1-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd1-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id D6494C1A2E for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:21:07 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd1-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.897 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd1-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mx1-lw-eu.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd1-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.7]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id seEwnu4BBVN1 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:21:06 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-oi1-f171.google.com (mail-oi1-f171.google.com [209.85.167.171]) by mx1-lw-eu.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-eu.apache.org) with ESMTPS id D516C5F39B for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2018 05:21:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-oi1-f171.google.com with SMTP id v69-v6so6040288oif.1 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 22:21:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=fffneAvg16l0LBtZ+RByCkyeFnmSSOLMQl+2WGi2R+I=; b=TgVJ1lYXNeKgPR1zu0vlYUOHMSzVMzPBge1HAQch/3cqi/t/PpUuPKfJrhWgO7lAsD l894gou0fikH7ZfImEdWtKib9Z9B49o+Uefqpo7liKYZvqHleQuS+5/Ftv/Zb6u1hBJ/ feIsRO1NAiCEm7pwHKlootuhLcYIoQ+rxikOznGxFa9iNuujYVEh06qJlqUJ4HS+QvzY Hi06gmpMesh3UuNGxlbtA3jq6pWvr5Xgi2xdKcJAl0zADeCL/XLSKgKf2MNvoCwAwMH4 LsU3W8o9yor1rlx624LfNucLKE7NnXpWTV8nvww3bUAkwF+qH/DwknMiq9NqD7lyyAq6 Ll8w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=fffneAvg16l0LBtZ+RByCkyeFnmSSOLMQl+2WGi2R+I=; b=kdUPI6tshTQBroEL/4J2Eeo3OSbyTelh8z52ddyL1852QDlM0TdQMmdwHWDESkWOI3 D5PxncGaOUYfVYNQ3OE04jMwkrW2f9TCopq63GiVb9jQW63Dx8/vqsi/o3BkoWH0cy+E C0TVotBBEmuHkRt0cTmB9rtlmHm2y7V2jeLWD8cwNM1DowplqQmXsvsOLCoUlbVrZCjk +KOuILQPs2rOkEqT/ibahUpwxncL/L02bvueTQCNpd76GSU5cyiTpSrqMoC1zcFUF7sP INk1JjqFx3umZ+P8vduMUaE50WvcSEaweYmkkewRw7C59C1rj649RbgUq0goWcTPrqvw EpcA== X-Gm-Message-State: ABuFfoiAjwl1eMiLtfcTjbuvJ738miECQHS58QNywndDdLTrN5ywVtUZ cPWRWoKS744kdscaGC+BDvdTnHalCN7C342hYMo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACcGV60ze+UwAGUAZEqhCIuBQzQmsviuBPICSE/envgAY8xdSQnJ38J7xfuTFShbBp4JijfQjtK+UIUqPPhAQh2asLc= X-Received: by 2002:aca:f286:: with SMTP id q128-v6mr44410oih.231.1539235258941; Wed, 10 Oct 2018 22:20:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8825F2C1-938C-4F01-BD31-01D625B11790@apache.org> <3C6B5691-9D5C-492D-A593-F925FE85A8F6@apache.org> In-Reply-To: From: Steffen Rochel Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 22:20:47 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Discussion] Separating PMC and Committership To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org Cc: kellen sunderland , Chris Olivier , dev@mxnet.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d5c6d80577ed22f9" --000000000000d5c6d80577ed22f9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Haibin - thanks for driving the discussion and thanks to Isabel to suggest review of roles and responsibilities. I do agree with the points Sandeep raised. I though about such separation myself and discussed with a few project members. Honestly, I got mixed feedback and couldn't really give myself a satisfying answer how to differentiate between committer and PMC member at this stage of the MXNet project. Apache MXNet (incubating) project does have an agreed process for electing committers - https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/Becoming+a+Committer and in my personal analysis there are a number of active contributors meeting the criteria. I suggest that a fair evaluation of active contributors by the PPMC will help to determine if established criteria are meet for consideration to election as committer and PPMC member. Such an analysis might also help to get a better understanding why a differentiation might be useful and what criteria to modify or establish. It might also help to identify potential gaps of contributions, which could be closed with mentoring. A friend of the MXNet project suggested to look at https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/33a6c3aa0fffa6e961aa2b861ebde333d898a5= e1062d0d71d0e13d46@%3Cdev.community.apache.org%3E=E2=80=93 and learn from the experience of beam project in a similar situation. Either way, it is a good discussion to have to help to grow the community and project. I hope the that a lot of committers and contributors will participate. I met with Mark Thomas at ApacheCon in Montreal. He gave a pretty interesting talk in June in Berlin - https://foss-backstage.de/session/community-anti-patterns. He offered to present and discuss with interested members of the project about his experience on growing projects and communities. Happy to make arrangements, if the community is interested. Regards, Steffen On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 7:17 AM sandeep krishnamurthy < sandeep.krishna98@gmail.com> wrote: > +1 > This will be very useful for increasing our committer pool that has > expertise in various components and not necessarily across and complete > in-depth expertise. This will have mainly 3 major positive impact on the > project: > 1. Will greatly help in managing PRs and issues with fast turn around. > There by more activity and frustration free contributions and hence more > people eligible for committership. A positive cycle effect in community > building. Currently this is a most critical missing piece in the project > that is delaying and not so great quick start for new contributions. > > 2. Increase in committer pool is more motivation for more people to be pa= rt > of the MXNet community and contribute and learn more parts of the project > and increase their expertise. > > 3. PMC being able to focus on more critical decision making and steer the > direction. > > However, like others suggested, success of this whole effort will be base= d > on defining clear responsibility of PMC, committers and path for the > community to be part of committers and PMC. > > > On Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 3:37 AM Isabel Drost-Fromm > wrote: > > > > > > > Am 10. Oktober 2018 11:04:30 MESZ schrieb kellen sunderland < > > kellen.sunderland@gmail.com>: > > > My > > >impression is there's a high degree of knowledge and experience > > >required to > > >make strategic design decisions on the project. > > > > This statement indicates a certain understanding of what a PMC actually > > does. As a first step, would everyone please state their perspective on > > what their understanding of what the role committer, PMC member and PMC > > chair actually are? I really want to make sure we are talking about the > > same things here. > > > > Isabel > > > > > > -- > > Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Ger=C3=A4t mit K-9 Mail gesend= et. > > > --000000000000d5c6d80577ed22f9--