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From Tianqi Chen <tqc...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [Discussion] PMC and Committer Courtesy: Only Propose Candidate in a Different Organization
Date Mon, 22 Oct 2018 16:01:53 GMT
I want to clarify that this would not prevent Amazon contributors from
being nominated. Nor it would prevent collaboration between Amazon
employees. A good thing about Apache is that everything is recorded and
presented to the entire community, this includes the dev list,
github review/commit history, documentation, wiki.

Specifically to Amazon contributors, there are non-Amazon PMCs can watch
these evidence and bring these contributors on board -- and I am very
certain this would be the case. If the problem that there are too few
non-Amazon PMCs, then it wouldn't hurt to try to get more on board, and
then get them in the term to nominate PMC contributors.

One of the key criteria of graduation for an Apache Project is that it
should not be controlled by a single entity. I think that whether we can
execute this guideline is exactly a good test to check if we pass that bar.

On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 9:19 PM Naveen Swamy <mnnaveen@gmail.com> wrote:

> this suggestion looks like it is putting the onus on contributors to
> collaborate with contributors outside their org to get nominated to be
> committer or a PMC of this project.
> Every organization has its own business goals, on the way to meet their
> objectives if their employees happen to be great contributors to this
> project, I would expect PMC members(wearing their Apache hat) to recognize
> them and give them a greater role in the project.
> I would assume the responsibility of increasing the diversity is solely
> upon the PMC members, the PMC should look ways to evangelize the project,
> mentor new contributors, nominate and make them a part of the project's
> journey.
> I do agree that we have to increase the diversity and suggest to explore
> different ways( for example collaborate with other successful Open source
> projects to get their members excited about MXNet).
>
> Guideline or not, I cannot agree to this in principle.
> -1
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 8:22 PM Tianqi Chen <tqchen@cs.washington.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > >
> > >  Many potential committers and
> > > PMC won’t interact with the non-Amazonians at all (since there are so
> > few),
> > > so they’d be relegated to obscurity and hopelessness by default.
> > >
> >
> > If potential contributors do not comes from Amazon, then the Amazonian
> PMC
> > can nominate them :)  If the potential contributors does comes from
> Amazon,
> > then it is not a bad thing to interact with bigger part of the
> community. I
> > can expect that as more non-Amazonian contributors get nonimated, this
> > would make the process more healthy.
> >
> > Like neural networks, any guideline can be played in adverserial fashion
> > (e.g. in the case of the gray areas). I think having a goodwill to push
> the
> > guideline will understandably make people to work together.
> >
> > Afterall, this is an Apache project that should goes beyond a single
> > company
> >
> > Tianqi
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 5:06 PM Steffen Rochel <
> steffenrochel@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Tianqi -
> > > > +1 . I like the idea to grow diversity at the project and encourage
> > > > communication beyond people sitting next to each other. I also
> support
> > > the
> > > > way you described as guideline, not has a hard rule. I think it is
> > > > important we focus on merit and contributions when evaluating nominee
> > for
> > > > committer and PPMC.
> > > >
> > > > Carin started a draft document for revised criteria for committer and
> > > PPMC
> > > > membership
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/Become+an+Apache+MXNet+%28incubating%29+Committer+and+PPMC+Member+Proposal
> > > > >.
> > > > I suggest to contribute, provide feedback and suggestion including
> your
> > > > proposal.
> > > >
> > > > Steffen
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 10:22 AM Tianqi Chen <tqchen@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Dear MXNet Community:
> > > > >
> > > > > There has been a great discussion going on in terms of
> > > > > PMC/Committer Criteria.  As a community move forward, it is
> important
> > > to
> > > > > make the community inclusive to everyone and encourage folks to
> work
> > > > > together.
> > > > >
> > > > > I want to propose the following proposal courtesy: when a PMC
> > proposes
> > > a
> > > > > committer/PMC member, for courtesy of the community, she/he should
> > only
> > > > > propose a person from a different organization(company).
> > > > >
> > > > > The idea behind that is that the Apache project goes beyond a
> single
> > > > > organization, it is important to recognize others, including those
> > > from a
> > > > > different organization in the community, and get your merit being
> > > > > recognized by others.
> > > > >
> > > > > Admittedly, this would also give more "power" to the PMC members
> from
> > > > > minority organizations -- which I think is a good thing. This might
> > > also
> > > > > encourage everyone to work together and talk to folks who are
> beyond
> > > your
> > > > > next door
> > > > >
> > > > > Tianqi
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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