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From kellen sunderland <kellen.sunderl...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] - Revisions to Committer Criteria
Date Mon, 29 Oct 2018 17:40:10 GMT
Forgot to answer your second question "How many votes are required by PMCs
before the formal release can happen? Is this considered community-related
decision as well, e.g. PMC vetos are binding?"
Answer "Votes on whether a package is ready to be released use majority
approval <https://www.apache.org/foundation/glossary.html#MajorityApproval> --
i.e. at least three PMC members must vote affirmatively for release, and
there must be more positive than negative votes. Releases may not be
vetoed. Generally
the community will cancel the release vote if anyone identifies serious
problems, but in most cases the ultimate decision, lies with the individual
serving as release manager. The specifics of the process may vary from
project to project, but the 'minimum quorum of three +1 votes' rule is
universal."
from: https://www.apache.org/foundation/voting.html

On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 10:38 AM kellen sunderland <
kellen.sunderland@gmail.com> wrote:

> I believe the wording _must_ comes from the fact that the PMC (as a body)
> must have a formal vote for a release, otherwise the release will not
> happen.  I don't believe it means every PMC member is required to vote on
> the release.  I can see where the confusion comes from, but also feel the
> wording is correct.
>
> On Mon, Oct 29, 2018 at 8:53 AM Yuan Tang <terrytangyuan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 11:12 PM Naveen Swamy <mnnaveen@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I added clarifying sections to explicitly call out committers/PMC
>> > privileges. Please review.
>> >
>> > Pasting here for convenience
>> > Committer Privileges
>> >
>> >    - Committers have write access to the code repository.
>> >    - Committers have an @apache.org email address.
>> >    - Committers can make short-term decisions for the project, approving
>> >    and merging pull requests.
>> >    - Committer Vote is *NOT* considered *binding* thus the vote you
>> cast do
>> >    not have *Veto* on issues that require consensus.
>> >    - Committer's can request changes on Pull Requests but it does not
>> >    constitute Veto, PMC can agree to approve or reject requested
>> changes.
>> >
>> > PMC Privileges
>> >
>> >    - PMC makes the long-term decisions with regard to the project.
>> >    - PMC members have write access to the code repository.
>> >    - PMC members have @apache.org email address.
>> >    - PMC has access to private@ email list
>> >    - PMC has the right to vote for the community-related decisions, PMC
>> >    Votes are *binding*.
>> >    - PMC has the right to propose active users for committership.
>> >    - PMC must vote on any formal release of the project's software
>> product.
>> >
>> Could you clarify on this (I don't think you meant "PMC *must* vote")? How
>> many votes are required by PMCs before the formal release can happen? Is
>> this considered community-related decision as well, e.g. PMC vetos are
>> binding?
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > All, I suggest you review the proposal and if there is any concern
>> please
>> > voice it here before this goes out for voting.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Oct 28, 2018 at 8:04 AM Carin Meier <carinmeier@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I plan to start a vote on the adopting
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/Become+an+Apache+MXNet+%28incubating%29+Committer+and+PPMC+Member+Proposal
>> > > to
>> > > replace our current document
>> > >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/Becoming+a+Committer
>> > > tomorrow
>> > > (Monday).
>> > >
>> > > - Carin
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 8:32 AM Carin Meier <carinmeier@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Thanks for publishing the notes and also thanks everyone for
>> providing
>> > > > valuable feedback and discussion.
>> > > >
>> > > > I encourage everyone that has ideas for improvement to the document
>> to
>> > > > feel free to edit and revise. If you need a login to the wiki,
>> please
>> > > just
>> > > > ask.
>> > > >
>> > > > Also, while editing, please keep in mind that the intent is to have
>> a
>> > > vote
>> > > > on adopting the new
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/Become+an+Apache+MXNet+%28incubating%29+Committer+and+PPMC+Member+Proposal
>> > > > to replace our current document
>> > > >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/Becoming+a+Committer
>> > > > before a vote on separating levels of committer and PPMC as a
>> process.
>> > > So,
>> > > > if possible, adopting wording that would work in either outcome of
>> that
>> > > > vote.
>> > > >
>> > > > On the subject of voting, I was thinking of starting a vote on
>> Friday,
>> > > but
>> > > > will delay that until the active discussions and revisions are
>> > complete.
>> > > >
>> > > > Best,
>> > > > Carin
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:39 AM Pedro Larroy <
>> > > pedro.larroy.lists@gmail.com>
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> This is the first hangout that I was able to attend, I liked the
>> > format
>> > > >> and
>> > > >> found them valuable. Thanks for organizing and publishing the
>> notes.
>> > > >> Looking forward to the next one.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Pedro
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 6:44 AM Steffen Rochel <
>> > steffenrochel@gmail.com
>> > > >
>> > > >> wrote:
>> > > >>
>> > > >> > Carin - please see
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/Hangout+October+24th+2018+8am+and+5pm+PDT
>> > > >> > :
>> > > >> > Discussion about committer proposal:
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >    - Proposal default should be to have separation between
>> committer
>> > > and
>> > > >> >    PPMC election
>> > > >> >    - Criteria are vague, should we add some example persona?
>> > > >> >    - Spell out privileges of committer and PPMC member
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Note: I update the project proposal to address first bullet.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Steffen
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 11:29 AM Carin Meier <
>> carinmeier@gmail.com>
>> > > >> wrote:
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > > A request to whoever is taking notes at the MXNet Hangouts
that
>> > are
>> > > >> > > occurring today. Could you please recap feedback from
the
>> meeting
>> > in
>> > > >> > > regards to document revisions here for everyone? I would
like
>> to
>> > > >> attend
>> > > >> > the
>> > > >> > > session later today, but may not due to family obligations.
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > Thanks!
>> > > >> > > Carin
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 2:24 PM Steffen Rochel <
>> > > >> steffenrochel@gmail.com>
>> > > >> > > wrote:
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > Carin - I got feedback on my proposal and made
changes. I
>> > > >> incorporated
>> > > >> > > > Tianqi's suggesiton that we should strive to nominate
>> > > committer/PPMC
>> > > >> > > > candidates from outside ones own organization.
It should not
>> be
>> > > >> > > considered
>> > > >> > > > as a hard rule, but recommendation.
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > Steffen
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > On Mon, Oct 22, 2018 at 2:18 PM Carin Meier <
>> > carinmeier@gmail.com
>> > > >
>> > > >> > > wrote:
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > > > > Thanks Steffen helping draft up the proposal
for Committer
>> and
>> > > >> PPMC
>> > > >> > > > > guidelines.
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > Please everyone review and provide feedback
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/Become+an+Apache+MXNet+(incubating)+Committer+and+PPMC+Member+Proposal
>> > > >> > > > > .
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > I plan to start a vote on this Friday if the
>> > > discussions/revisions
>> > > >> > are
>> > > >> > > > > complete.
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > - Carin
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 12:03 PM Carin Meier
<
>> > > >> carinmeier@gmail.com>
>> > > >> > > > wrote:
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > Great!
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > I started a rough draft for collaboration
at
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/Become+a+Committer+Proposal
>> > > >> > > > > > .
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > Everyone feel free to enhance and provide
feedback.
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > - Carin
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 10:55 AM Steffen
Rochel <
>> > > >> > > > steffenrochel@gmail.com
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > > >> +1, great suggestion, thanks Carin!
>> > > >> > > > > >> I'm willing to collaborate to create
a draft proposal.
>> > > >> > > > > >> Steffen
>> > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > >> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 5:35 AM Carin
Meier <
>> > > >> carinmeier@gmail.com
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > wrote:
>> > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > >> > Background:
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >> > There is a desire to increase
the committer pool and
>> grow
>> > > the
>> > > >> > > > > community.
>> > > >> > > > > >> > This thread is to discuss the
possibility of revision
>> the
>> > > >> > current
>> > > >> > > > > >> committer
>> > > >> > > > > >> > criteria in light of the following
goals:
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >> > - Make it easier to newcomers
to be committers
>> > > >> > > > > >> > - Recognize non-code contributions
as paths to
>> > > committership
>> > > >> > > > > >> > - Open the door to separating
levels of committer and
>> PMC
>> > > >> > > (discussed
>> > > >> > > > > in
>> > > >> > > > > >> > another thread)
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >> > Current State:
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >> > The current committer criteria
is here
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> >
>> > >
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/Becoming+a+Committer
>> > > >> > > > > >> as
>> > > >> > > > > >> > is modeled after the Hadoop
committer criteria
>> > > >> > > > > >> > https://hadoop.apache.org/committer_criteria.html
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >> > Proposal:
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >> > Model the MXNet path to committership
and PMC after
>> the
>> > > >> Apache
>> > > >> > > Beam
>> > > >> > > > > >> project
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> https://beam.apache.org/contribute/become-a-committer/
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >> > Short quote from page:
>> > > >> > > > > >> >       =================
>> > > >> > > > > >> > An Apache Beam committer…
>> > > >> > > > > >> > <
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://beam.apache.org/contribute/become-a-committer/#an-apache-beam-committer
>> > > >> > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >> >    - Takes many forms
>> > > >> > > > > >> >    <
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >>
>> > https://beam.apache.org/contribute/become-a-committer/#takes-many-forms
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >> >    - Knows, upholds, and reinforces
the Apache
>> Software
>> > > >> > Foundation
>> > > >> > > > > code
>> > > >> > > > > >> of
>> > > >> > > > > >> >    conduct
>> > > >> > > > > >> >    <
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://beam.apache.org/contribute/become-a-committer/#knows-upholds-and-reinforces-the-apache-software-foundation-code-of-conduct
>> > > >> > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > >> >    - Knows, upholds, and reinforces
the
>> responsibilities
>> > of
>> > > >> an
>> > > >> > > > Apache
>> > > >> > > > > >> >    Software Foundation committer
>> > > >> > > > > >> >    <
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://beam.apache.org/contribute/become-a-committer/#knows-upholds-and-reinforces-the-responsibilities-of-an-apache-software-foundation-committer
>> > > >> > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > >> >    - Knows, upholds, and reinforces
the Beam
>> community’s
>> > > >> > practices
>> > > >> > > > > >> >    <
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://beam.apache.org/contribute/become-a-committer/#knows-upholds-and-reinforces-the-beam-communitys-practices
>> > > >> > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > >> >    - =================
>> > > >> > > > > >> >    <
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> https://beam.apache.org/contribute/become-a-committer/#knows-upholds-and-reinforces-the-beam-communitys-practices
>> > > >> > > > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >> > I believe if we merge our current
committer criteria
>> with
>> > > >> this
>> > > >> > > model
>> > > >> > > > > it
>> > > >> > > > > >> > will open  the path to committership
to a wider pool,
>> > > >> > acknowledge
>> > > >> > > > that
>> > > >> > > > > >> > there are multiple paths, and
reinforce the ASF values
>> > and
>> > > >> > > > > >> > responsibilities.
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >> > The Beam model does not explicitly
address a PMC level
>> > but
>> > > we
>> > > >> > > could
>> > > >> > > > > add
>> > > >> > > > > >> it
>> > > >> > > > > >> > in in the same spirit of reinforcing
the ASF
>> > > responsibilities
>> > > >> > and
>> > > >> > > > > >> values of
>> > > >> > > > > >> > this level.
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >> > Looking forward to feedback
about this possible
>> > direction.
>> > > If
>> > > >> > the
>> > > >> > > > > >> community
>> > > >> > > > > >> > is interested looking more into
this direction I
>> would be
>> > > >> happy
>> > > >> > to
>> > > >> > > > > >> create
>> > > >> > > > > >> > of first draft of something
more concrete to look at -
>> > (or
>> > > if
>> > > >> > > > someone
>> > > >> > > > > >> else
>> > > >> > > > > >> > wants to take a crack at it
too that would be great)
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >> > - Carin
>> > > >> > > > > >> >
>> > > >> > > > > >>
>> > > >> > > > > >
>> > > >> > > > >
>> > > >> > > >
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>

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