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From Carin Meier <carinme...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [Discussion] PMC and Committer Courtesy: Only Propose Candidate in a Different Organization
Date Wed, 24 Oct 2018 21:16:13 GMT
I should clarify - parts were removed and parts were added :)
I'm not sure if this is exactly that Tianqi had in mind or not. But the
document is open to feedback. These threads are getting a bit confused. So
if you are going to discuss the document - please prefer the [DISCUSS] -
Revisions to Committer Criteria thread.

Thanks,
Carin

On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 5:05 PM Carin Meier <carinmeier@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think it was removed from the document by Steffen from feedback
> https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/4ed84034f9cac4cacae865dd5b5699aa1f9d650c0feee37072df41fa@%3Cdev.mxnet.apache.org%3E
>
> The diff is here
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/pages/diffpagesbyversion.action?pageId=95652053&selectedPageVersions=4&selectedPageVersions=3
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 4:29 PM Jim Jagielski <jim@jagunet.com> wrote:
>
>> Neither can I.
>>
>> > On Oct 22, 2018, at 12:19 AM, Naveen Swamy <mnnaveen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > this suggestion looks like it is putting the onus on contributors to
>> > collaborate with contributors outside their org to get nominated to be
>> > committer or a PMC of this project.
>> > Every organization has its own business goals, on the way to meet their
>> > objectives if their employees happen to be great contributors to this
>> > project, I would expect PMC members(wearing their Apache hat) to
>> recognize
>> > them and give them a greater role in the project.
>> > I would assume the responsibility of increasing the diversity is solely
>> > upon the PMC members, the PMC should look ways to evangelize the
>> project,
>> > mentor new contributors, nominate and make them a part of the project's
>> > journey.
>> > I do agree that we have to increase the diversity and suggest to explore
>> > different ways( for example collaborate with other successful Open
>> source
>> > projects to get their members excited about MXNet).
>> >
>> > Guideline or not, I cannot agree to this in principle.
>> > -1
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 8:22 PM Tianqi Chen <tqchen@cs.washington.edu>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> Many potential committers and
>> >>> PMC won’t interact with the non-Amazonians at all (since there are
so
>> >> few),
>> >>> so they’d be relegated to obscurity and hopelessness by default.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> If potential contributors do not comes from Amazon, then the Amazonian
>> PMC
>> >> can nominate them :)  If the potential contributors does comes from
>> Amazon,
>> >> then it is not a bad thing to interact with bigger part of the
>> community. I
>> >> can expect that as more non-Amazonian contributors get nonimated, this
>> >> would make the process more healthy.
>> >>
>> >> Like neural networks, any guideline can be played in adverserial
>> fashion
>> >> (e.g. in the case of the gray areas). I think having a goodwill to
>> push the
>> >> guideline will understandably make people to work together.
>> >>
>> >> Afterall, this is an Apache project that should goes beyond a single
>> >> company
>> >>
>> >> Tianqi
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 5:06 PM Steffen Rochel <
>> steffenrochel@gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Hi Tianqi -
>> >>>> +1 . I like the idea to grow diversity at the project and encourage
>> >>>> communication beyond people sitting next to each other. I also
>> support
>> >>> the
>> >>>> way you described as guideline, not has a hard rule. I think it
is
>> >>>> important we focus on merit and contributions when evaluating nominee
>> >> for
>> >>>> committer and PPMC.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Carin started a draft document for revised criteria for committer
and
>> >>> PPMC
>> >>>> membership
>> >>>> <
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/Become+an+Apache+MXNet+%28incubating%29+Committer+and+PPMC+Member+Proposal
>> >>>>> .
>> >>>> I suggest to contribute, provide feedback and suggestion including
>> your
>> >>>> proposal.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Steffen
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 10:22 AM Tianqi Chen <tqchen@apache.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Dear MXNet Community:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> There has been a great discussion going on in terms of
>> >>>>> PMC/Committer Criteria.  As a community move forward, it is
>> important
>> >>> to
>> >>>>> make the community inclusive to everyone and encourage folks
to work
>> >>>>> together.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I want to propose the following proposal courtesy: when a PMC
>> >> proposes
>> >>> a
>> >>>>> committer/PMC member, for courtesy of the community, she/he
should
>> >> only
>> >>>>> propose a person from a different organization(company).
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The idea behind that is that the Apache project goes beyond
a single
>> >>>>> organization, it is important to recognize others, including
those
>> >>> from a
>> >>>>> different organization in the community, and get your merit
being
>> >>>>> recognized by others.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Admittedly, this would also give more "power" to the PMC members
>> from
>> >>>>> minority organizations -- which I think is a good thing. This
might
>> >>> also
>> >>>>> encourage everyone to work together and talk to folks who are
beyond
>> >>> your
>> >>>>> next door
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Tianqi
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>>
>>

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