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From Lin Yuan <apefor...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: [DISCUSS] Build OSX builds in CI (possibly with TravisCI).
Date Wed, 05 Sep 2018 16:57:58 GMT
Hi Kellen,

I would love to contribute. Please let me know if you have any particular
work item that I can help.

Best,

Lin

On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 9:51 AM Tianqi Chen <tqchen@cs.washington.edu> wrote:

> is it possible for us to get a MacBook and hook it to the current Jenkins
> CI? Travis OSX usually build from scratch and that was pretty slow
>
> Tianqi
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 8:49 AM kellen sunderland <
> kellen.sunderland@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Great you feel that way Lin, please feel free to contribute if you have
> any
> > features you'd like tested.  We are using the travis image xcode9.4 which
> > is based on MacOS 10.13.
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 6:40 PM Lin Yuan <apeforest@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Kellen,
> > >
> > > Many thanks for your and Marco's effort! I think this is a very crucial
> > > piece to improve MXNet stability.
> > >
> > > To add some data points:
> > > 1) Customers using CoreML to MXNet converter were blocked for a while
> > > because the converter was broken and no unit test was in place to
> detect
> > > that.
> > > 2) Developers on Mac cannot verify their local commits because some
> unit
> > > tests on master were broken. This wasted much time and resource on
> > jenkins
> > > server to detect the failure.
> > > 3) Please consider running the CI on Mac OS 10.13 since this is the
> > minimum
> > > Mac OS version that supports CoreML (to support CoreML to MXNet
> > converter)
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > >
> > > Lin
> > >
> > > On Wed, Sep 5, 2018, 3:02 AM kellen sunderland <
> > > kellen.sunderland@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm bumping this thread as we've recently had our first serious bug
> on
> > > > MacOS that would have been caught by enabling Travis.
> > > >
> > > > I'm going to do a little experimental work together with Marco with
> the
> > > > goal of enabling a minimal Travis build that will run python tests.
> So
> > > far
> > > > I've verified that Travis will in fact find a bug that currently
> exists
> > > in
> > > > master and has been reproduced by MacOS clients.  This indicates to
> me
> > > that
> > > > adding Travis will add value to our CI.
> > > >
> > > > My best guess is that it might take us some iteration before we find
> a
> > > > scalable way to integrate Travis.  Given this we're going to enable
> > > Travis
> > > > in non-blocking mode (i.e. failures are safe to ignore for the time
> > > being).
> > > >
> > > > To help mitigate the risk of timeouts, and to remove legacy code I'm
> > > going
> > > > to re-create the travis.yml file from scratch.  I think it'll be much
> > > less
> > > > confusing if we only have working code related to Travis in our
> > codebase,
> > > > so that contributors won't have to experiment to see what is or isn't
> > > > working.  We've got some great, but slightly out-of-date
> functionality
> > in
> > > > the legacy .travis.yml file.  I hope we can work together to update
> the
> > > > legacy features, ensure they work with the current folder structure
> and
> > > > also make sure the features run within Travis's 45 minute global time
> > > > window.
> > > >
> > > > I'd also like to set expectations that this is strictly a volunteer
> > > > effort.  I'd welcome help from the community for support and
> > maintenance.
> > > > The model downloading caching work particularly stands out to me as
> > > > something I'd like to re-enable again as soon as possible.
> > > >
> > > > -Kellen
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 11:52 AM Marco de Abreu <
> > > > marco.g.abreu@googlemail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Looks good! +1
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Jan 9, 2018 at 10:24 AM, kellen sunderland <
> > > > > kellen.sunderland@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I think most were in favour of at a minimum creating a clang
> build
> > so
> > > > > I've
> > > > > > created a PR
> > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/9330/commits/
> > > > > > 84089ea14123ebe4d66cc92e82a2d529cfbd8b19.
> > > > > > My hope is this will catch many of the issues blocking OSX
> builds.
> > > In
> > > > > fact
> > > > > > it already caught one issue.  If you guys are in favour I can
> > remove
> > > > the
> > > > > > WIP and ask that it be merged.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 6:29 PM, Chris Olivier <
> > cjolivier01@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nope, I have been on vacation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 9:10 AM, kellen sunderland <
> > > > > > > kellen.sunderland@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hope everyone had a good break.  Just wanted to check
if
> there
> > > were
> > > > > > > further
> > > > > > > > thoughts on OSX builds.  Chris, did you have time
to look
> into
> > > > > > > virtualizing
> > > > > > > > Mac OS?  Would it make sense for us to put something
in place
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > interim e.g. the clang solution?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 7:59 PM, de Abreu, Marco <
> > > > mabreu@amazon.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks for looking into this, Chris! No hurries
on that
> one,
> > > > we’ll
> > > > > > look
> > > > > > > > > into it next stage when we add new system- and
> > > > build-configurations
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > CI.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 12.12.17, 19:12, "Chris Olivier" <cjolivier01@gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >     I am on vacation starting Thursday.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >     On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 9:49 AM kellen sunderland
<
> > > > > > > > >     kellen.sunderland@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >     > Absolutely, let's do an investigation
and see if it's
> > > > > possible
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >     > virtualize.  Would you have time to
look into it a
> bit
> > > > > further?
> > > > > > > > >     >
> > > > > > > > >     > On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 6:47 PM, Chris
Olivier <
> > > > > > > > > cjolivier01@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > >     > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >     >
> > > > > > > > >     > > Don’t get me wrong, I’m not
saying this Mac OS
> > Jenkins
> > > > > > solution
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > doable
> > > > > > > > >     > > but I feel like we should investigate
because the
> > > payoff
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > large.
> > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 9:38 AM
Chris Olivier <
> > > > > > > > > cjolivier01@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > >     > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > > Apple’s Darwin OS Is recently
open-sourced.
> > > > > > > > >     > > > https://github.com/PureDarwin/PureDarwin
> > > > > > > > >     > > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > > How to convert this into a
non-GUI VM I am not
> sure
> > > > but I
> > > > > > am
> > > > > > > > > willing to
> > > > > > > > >     > > > bet that people have done
it already.
> > > > > > > > >     > > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > > On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 9:16
AM kellen
> sunderland <
> > > > > > > > >     > > > kellen.sunderland@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > > > > > > >     > > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> It might be technically
possible, but I think it
> > > would
> > > > > > > violate
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >     > MacOS
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> license: http://store.apple.com/
> > > > > > > Catalog/US/Images/MacOSX.htm
> > > > > > > > >     > > >>
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> "2. Permitted License
Uses and Restrictions.
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> A. This License allows
you to install and use
> one
> > > copy
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Apple
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> Software on a single Apple-labeled
computer at a
> > > time.
> > > > > > This
> > > > > > > > > License
> > > > > > > > >     > does
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> not allow the Apple Software
to exist on more
> than
> > > one
> > > > > > > > computer
> > > > > > > > > at a
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> time,and you may not make
the Apple Software
> > > available
> > > > > > over
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > network
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> where
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> it could be used by multiple
computers at the
> same
> > > > time.
> > > > > > You
> > > > > > > > > may make
> > > > > > > > >     > > one
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> copy of the Apple Software
(excluding the Boot
> ROM
> > > > code)
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> machine-readable form
for backup purposes only;
> > > > provided
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >     > backup
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> copy must include all
copyright or other
> > proprietary
> > > > > > notices
> > > > > > > > > contained
> > > > > > > > >     > > on
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> the original. "
> > > > > > > > >     > > >>
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> I could be wrong though,
does anyone know the
> > > details
> > > > of
> > > > > > > MacOS
> > > > > > > > >     > > licensing /
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> virtualization?
> > > > > > > > >     > > >>
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at
6:10 PM, Chris Olivier <
> > > > > > > > > cjolivier01@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >     > > >>
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > googling seems to
be full of running OSX (and
> > even
> > > > > > > > > open-sourced
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> PureDarwin)
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > in VMs. One could
conceivably run a VM on an
> EC2
> > > > > > instance,
> > > > > > > > > right?
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > On Tue, Dec 12, 2017
at 9:01 AM kellen
> > sunderland
> > > <
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > kellen.sunderland@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > It would be
ideal if we could cover OSX in
> > > > Jenkins,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> solution
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > that I'm aware
of would require physical
> > > machines
> > > > to
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >     > workers.
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> I
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > would be weakly
opposed to having physical
> > > servers
> > > > > > > running
> > > > > > > > > on PRs.
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> The
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > downsides that
I see in order of importance:
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > -  We can't
autoscale physical hardware.
>  If
> > we
> > > > > find
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >     > load
> > > > > > > > >     > > is
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > too
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > high we have
to buy more machines.
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > -  Security
would be tricky, as they'd have
> to
> > > be
> > > > > > > > connected
> > > > > > > > > to the
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > internet
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > and then to
our Jekins master instance.
> > > > Connecting
> > > > > > via
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > wired
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> network
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > would probably
not be possible on most
> > corporate
> > > > > > > networks
> > > > > > > > > as these
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > machines
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > are by definition
running arbitrary code
> from
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > internet.  Many
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > corporate
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > sites have public
wifi that this machine
> could
> > > > > > > potentially
> > > > > > > > > connect
> > > > > > > > >     > > to,
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > but
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > then our PRs
start failing if the wifi
> > > disconnects
> > > > > > > > > temporarily.
> > > > > > > > >     > To
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > connect
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > to the master
we would need to setup a vpn
> > > > solution
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > endpoints
> > > > > > > > >     > > in
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> our
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > vpc on AWS.
 This is possible but would
> > probably
> > > > > > > require a
> > > > > > > > > lot of
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > security
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > work.
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > -  We can't
just create a simple startup
> > script
> > > or
> > > > > > yaml
> > > > > > > > > file that
> > > > > > > > >     > is
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > checked into
GitHub to manage the machine.
> > > > Someone
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > actually
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> have to
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > physically administer
the machine, apply
> > > updates,
> > > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > > which will
> > > > > > > > >     > > make
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > community ownership
difficult.
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > Specific to
an OSX build:
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > -  We can't
virtualize OSX which means we'd
> > only
> > > > be
> > > > > > able
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > cover
> > > > > > > > >     > > one
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> OSX
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > build environment
per physical device.  We
> > > > couldn't
> > > > > > > > target a
> > > > > > > > >     > matrix
> > > > > > > > >     > > of
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > OSX
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > and Xcode versions
as in Travis.
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > -Kellen
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > On Tue, Dec
12, 2017 at 5:46 PM, Chris
> > Olivier <
> > > > > > > > >     > > cjolivier01@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > So why
Travis when we could possibly use
> > > > Jenkins?
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > On Tue,
Dec 12, 2017 at 7:59 AM Marco de
> > > Abreu <
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > marco.g.abreu@googlemail.com>
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > Yes
that's correct, Chris.
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > Am
12.12.2017 4:46 nachm. schrieb "Chris
> > > > > Olivier"
> > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > cjolivier01@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > >:
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
A quick google search seems to
> indicate
> > > that
> > > > > Mac
> > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > be used
> > > > > > > > >     > > as
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> a
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > Jenkins
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
slave. Is this correct?
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 7:42 AM
> Steffen
> > > > > Rochel <
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > steffenrochel@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
wrote:
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> +1 for #1 and #2
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> I’m working on getting a MacPro to
> add
> > > to
> > > > CI
> > > > > > > > system.
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 1:43 AM
> kellen
> > > > > > > sunderland
> > > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> kellen.sunderland@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > Background:  TravisCI is a startup
> > > > > providing
> > > > > > > > > managed
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> continuous
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > integration services with GitHub
> > > > > integration
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > YAML
> > > > > > > > >     > > based
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> configuration.
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > TravisCI is one of the few CI
> > > providers
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > build
> > > > > > > > >     > a
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > variety
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > of
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > OSX/MacOS builds for software
> > > projects.
> > > > > > Their
> > > > > > > > > pricing
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> ranges
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > from
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > Free
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > (for open source, 1 concurrent
> job,
> > to
> > > > > $489
> > > > > > > > > monthly for
> > > > > > > > >     > 10
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > concurrent
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> jobs).
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > Problem: We’ve had a few OSX build
> > > > issues
> > > > > > slip
> > > > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > >     > MXNet
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > master
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > in
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > past few weeks.  We’ve previously
> > had
> > > a
> > > > > > Travis
> > > > > > > > CI
> > > > > > > > > based
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> testing
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > system
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> that
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > would have caught these issues.
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > Proposals so far:
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > 1) Use TravisCI in it’s free mode
> > for
> > > a
> > > > > very
> > > > > > > > > minimal
> > > > > > > > >     > > sanity
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > check
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > on
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
OSX.
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > If we compile the program, and for
> > > > example
> > > > > > run
> > > > > > > > > C++ unit
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> tests
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > we’re
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > unlikely to run into problems with
> > > > queued
> > > > > > > > > builds.  The
> > > > > > > > >     > > total
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > build
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > time
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > here should be less than 15
> minutes.
> > > > > > > > > Configuration
> > > > > > > > >     > should
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> be
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > quite
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> simple
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > and easy to maintain.  Error
> > messages
> > > > > should
> > > > > > > > also
> > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> obvious to
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > contributors.
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > 2) Run clang in Linux with our
> > current
> > > > CI.
> > > > > > > > > Building
> > > > > > > > >     > with
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> clang
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > should
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > take less than 10 minutes, should
> > > flush
> > > > > out
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > large
> > > > > > > > >     > subset
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> of
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > the
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
issues
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > we’ve seen with OSX, and be quite
> > easy
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > > maintain.
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > 3) Run full test-suites in
> TravisCI,
> > > > > > equaling
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > level
> > > > > > > > >     > of
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > coverage
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > we
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > provide to Linux in Jenkins.  This
> > > could
> > > > > > > require
> > > > > > > > > us to
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > subscribe
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > to a
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > monthly package with Travis to
> > ensure
> > > > our
> > > > > > > build
> > > > > > > > > queue
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> doesn’t
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > grow
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > to
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
an
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > unacceptable length.  It may also
> > > > require
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > volunteer to
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> setup
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > and
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> maintain
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > long-term.
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > I’d +1 #1 and #2 as I think those
> > > should
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > low-cost,
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > low-maintence
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > solutions that should catch the
> > > majority
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > problems
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> we’ve
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > seen
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
thus
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > far.
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > -Kellen
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
>
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >     > > >>
> > > > > > > > >     > > >
> > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > > > > > > >     >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Mime
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