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From shiwen hu <yajiedes...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Propose to discontinue supporting Apache MXNet on Windows 7
Date Mon, 03 Sep 2018 11:48:40 GMT
The known problem with Win7 now is
https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/9271.
Because I've upgraded Win10, so I can't reproduce this problem, and I can't
solve it.
I am not sure whether the problem has been solved now.
I am sorry about this

shiwen hu <yajiedesign@gmail.com> 于2018年9月3日周一 下午7:43写道:

> At present, all precompiled packages are win10-compiled.
> There are no large-scale reports that can no run win7.
> Therefore, there is no problem for all precompiled package users to stop
> or continue supporting.
>
> Timur Shenkao <tsh@timshenkao.su> 于2018年9月3日周一 下午5:14写道:
>
>> Users live like you described: install mxnet, then import fails, switch to
>> TF or Pytorch and forget mxnet forever.
>>
>> Only very stubborn users spend time in loop: compiling / building wheel /
>> conda package on external machine, copy to destination machine, fail with
>> some dependency error, etc. Until patience is lost or something workable
>> is
>> created.
>>
>> On Monday, September 3, 2018, Lin Yuan <apeforest@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Thanks for all the constructive discussions. I have a few thoughts on
>> this
>> > topic:
>> >
>> > When we say we support a particular platform X, I suppose it means the
>> > following processes in production:
>> >
>> > 1) Active developer support, the minimum of which is a clear
>> instruction to
>> > build from source on X.
>> > 2) Thorough test in each release/patch on X.
>> > 3) Continuous integration on X
>> >
>> > It seems today we are missing all of them for Windows 7 (correct me if
>> I am
>> > wrong). I have found issues opened over 9 months ago #9271
>> > <https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/9271> which fails
>> simply
>> > by importing mxnet and exiting on Windows 7. Thus, I am wondering how
>> many
>> > users are actually running MXNet on Windows 7 for meaningful work. How
>> did
>> > live by with such an obvious blocker.
>> >
>> > If we do have a large active user base to support, we then should
>> dedicate
>> > resource to implement the above three items in order to claim that we
>> > support Windows 7. After all, maybe we should change the thread topic to
>> > "Should we start supporting Windows 7 again?" :)
>> >
>> > I really appreciate your valuable comments. Have a great labor day
>> weekend!
>> >
>> > Lin
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 12:37 PM Timur Shenkao <tsh@timshenkao.su>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > >> I also believe that it is possible to install more recent >>
>> versions
>> > of
>> > > Visual Studio on Windows 7.
>> > >
>> > > It's about security reasons and AD permissions and bought licenses for
>> > VS,
>> > > not about general technical impossibility of installation of
>> up-to-date
>> > > versions.
>> > >
>> > > On Sunday, September 2, 2018, Marco de Abreu
>> > > <marco.g.abreu@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Thanks for the data and these quite important points. I agree and
>> > hereby
>> > > > change my vote to -1.
>> > > >
>> > > > Barber, Christopher <Christopher.Barber@analog.com> schrieb
am
>> So., 2.
>> > > > Sep.
>> > > > 2018, 18:56:
>> > > >
>> > > > > FWIW, my company is only beginning to transition to Windows 10
>> now,
>> > and
>> > > > my
>> > > > > past experience would lead me to believe that many enterprises
>> stick
>> > > with
>> > > > > old versions of Windows long past when you think they would.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Seems to me that if you are unwilling to deprecate python 2.7,
>> then
>> > > > > continuing to support Windows 7 is a no-brainer. You are more
>> likely
>> > to
>> > > > get
>> > > > > users to switch to python 3 than you are to get them to install
a
>> new
>> > > > > operating system.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > And do you really want to drop support for platforms that your
>> > > > competitors
>> > > > > still support? Given MXNet's market share, I wouldn't dream of
>> > > dropping a
>> > > > > platform until after the more popular frameworks have already
done
>> > so.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I also believe that it is possible to install more recent
>> versions of
>> > > > > Visual Studio on Windows 7.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On 9/2/18, 1:57 AM, "kellen sunderland" <
>> > kellen.sunderland@gmail.com>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >     Google analytics are sadly probably the best numbers we're
>> going
>> > to
>> > > > > get.
>> > > > >     Of course these numbers are likely to over-represent windows
>> > usage,
>> > > > as
>> > > > > I'm
>> > > > >     sure many people are looking up documentation on a windows
>> > machine
>> > > > > while
>> > > > >     ssh'd into a cloud instance or IoT device.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >     What's the trend over time for these numbers Mu?  Is Windows
7
>> > > usage
>> > > > >     relatively stable over the last year?
>> > > > >
>> > > > >     On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 1:58 AM Mu Li <muli.cmu@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >     > According to google analytics, ~12% users who visited
>> mxnet's
>> > > > > website are
>> > > > >     > using Windows 7. It's a significant number. Even though
we
>> > cannot
>> > > > > conclude
>> > > > >     > that all of these users will run MXNet on Windows 7,
I
>> suggest
>> > we
>> > > > > still
>> > > > >     > support win7.
>> > > > >     >
>> > > > >     > BTW, anyone who can access mxnet's google analytics
report
>> can
>> > > > > verify this
>> > > > >     > number by following this instruction:
>> > > > >     >
>> > > > >     >
>> > > > > https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1340778/detecting-
>> > > > windows-7-with-google-analytics
>> > > > >     >
>> > > > >     >
>> > > > >     >
>> > > > >     > On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 1:55 PM Steffen Rochel <
>> > > > > steffenrochel@gmail.com>
>> > > > >     > wrote:
>> > > > >     >
>> > > > >     > > I support a data driven decision. Any suggestions
how we
>> can
>> > > > obtain
>> > > > >     > insight
>> > > > >     > > about OS usage of the MXNet user community?
>> > > > >     > > Can we get such information from pip install statistics
or
>> > > should
>> > > > > we
>> > > > >     > > perform a user poll on the discussion forum?
>> > > > >     > > On the other hand the lack of data should not prevent
us
>> from
>> > > > > moving
>> > > > >     > > forward and dropping support for outdated OS.
>> > > > >     > > In any case we would have to announce dropping
a platform
>> > > support
>> > > > > at
>> > > > >     > least
>> > > > >     > > a release in advance.
>> > > > >     > > Steffen
>> > > > >     > >
>> > > > >     > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 12:21 PM Sheng Zha <
>> > > zhasheng@apache.org>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >     > >
>> > > > >     > > > Hi Kellen,
>> > > > >     > > >
>> > > > >     > > > Thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately,
I don't have
>> the
>> > > > > usage data,
>> > > > >     > > so
>> > > > >     > > > I refrained from voting. If any of the voters
have such
>> > data
>> > > > I'd
>> > > > > love
>> > > > >     > to
>> > > > >     > > > see it too.
>> > > > >     > > >
>> > > > >     > > > -sz
>> > > > >     > > >
>> > > > >     > > > On 2018/08/30 14:58:09, kellen sunderland
<
>> > > > > kellen.sunderland@gmail.com
>> > > > >     > >
>> > > > >     > > > wrote:
>> > > > >     > > > > I haven't spoken to anyone about the
decision (as I'm
>> > > > > currently on an
>> > > > >     > > > > island in the med) but to me the quick
+1s are likely
>> a
>> > > > result
>> > > > > of
>> > > > >     > this
>> > > > >     > > > > being a fairly straightforward decision.
 The factors
>> > that
>> > > > > went into
>> > > > >     > my
>> > > > >     > > > > thinking were (1) prioritizing growing
platforms
>> rather
>> > > than
>> > > > >     > shrinking
>> > > > >     > > > > platforms (i.e. thinking long term rather
than shirt
>> > term)
>> > > > and
>> > > > > (2)
>> > > > >     > > > earning
>> > > > >     > > > > our customers' trust.  Claiming support
for a platform
>> > when
>> > > > we
>> > > > > can't
>> > > > >     > > > > realistically deliver it would lose us
trust.  I'd
>> prefer
>> > > to
>> > > > > over
>> > > > >     > > deliver
>> > > > >     > > > > and under promise when it come to windows
7 for this
>> > > reason.
>> > > > >     > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > Now on the flip side one thing I would
see as
>> valuable is
>> > > to
>> > > > > try and
>> > > > >     > > get
>> > > > >     > > > > windows builds working with clang.  This
could be
>> > > beneficial
>> > > > > in the
>> > > > >     > > sense
>> > > > >     > > > > that it would be easy to maintain for
mxnet devs and
>> > allow
>> > > us
>> > > > > to use
>> > > > >     > > > modern
>> > > > >     > > > > cpp on older windows machines without
using vs
>> > 2013(which I
>> > > > > consider
>> > > > >     > a
>> > > > >     > > > > non-starter with our codebase).
>> > > > >     > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > You have peaked my curiousity though
Sheng.  How many
>> > win7
>> > > > > users does
>> > > > >     > > > MXNet
>> > > > >     > > > > have relative to macos/Linux?
>> > > > >     > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 8:51 AM Sheng Zha
<
>> > > szha.pvg@gmail.com>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >     > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > Hi Yuan,
>> > > > >     > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > No problem. This is an issue that's
worth having a
>> > clear
>> > > > >     > definition,
>> > > > >     > > so
>> > > > >     > > > > > there's nothing wrong about your
proposal, and
>> thanks
>> > for
>> > > > > bringing
>> > > > >     > > > this up.
>> > > > >     > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > I'm more concerned about the seemingly
unanimous
>> votes
>> > on
>> > > > > dropping
>> > > > >     > > > support
>> > > > >     > > > > > on a platform without seeing the
supporting evidence
>> > that
>> > > > > it's the
>> > > > >     > > > right
>> > > > >     > > > > > thing. It is as if everyone who
participated in the
>> > vote
>> > > > are
>> > > > >     > already
>> > > > >     > > > on the
>> > > > >     > > > > > same page, and somehow I'm the only
one that's not.
>> But
>> > > the
>> > > > > only
>> > > > >     > > > argument I
>> > > > >     > > > > > hear so far is that it's technically
not
>> > straightforward
>> > > to
>> > > > >     > continue
>> > > > >     > > > the
>> > > > >     > > > > > support, which, coming from Amazon
folks, certainly
>> > > doesn't
>> > > > > sound
>> > > > >     > > > > > customer-obsessed.
>> > > > >     > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > -sz
>> > > > >     > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:37 PM
Lin Yuan <
>> > > > > apeforest@gmail.com>
>> > > > >     > > wrote:
>> > > > >     > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > Hi Sheng,
>> > > > >     > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > Thanks for raising this concern.
The problem now
>> is
>> > > that
>> > > > we
>> > > > >     > cannot
>> > > > >     > > > even
>> > > > >     > > > > > > build MXNet on Windows 7 because
the build process
>> > > > > requires MS VS
>> > > > >     > > > 2015 w/
>> > > > >     > > > > > > update 3 which is incompatible
on Windows 7. This
>> > > leaves
>> > > > > many
>> > > > >     > > > Windows 7
>> > > > >     > > > > > > related open issues on github
without any timely
>> > > > response.
>> > > > > In my
>> > > > >     > > > opinion,
>> > > > >     > > > > > > having no response to users'
request is probably
>> even
>> > > > > worse than
>> > > > >     > > > letting
>> > > > >     > > > > > > them know the limitation of
OS support.
>> > > > >     > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > To minimize the impact to current
Windows 7
>> users, we
>> > > can
>> > > > > provide
>> > > > >     > > > PyPi
>> > > > >     > > > > > > package for Windows 7 in this
release but defer
>> the
>> > bug
>> > > > > fix and
>> > > > >     > > > feature
>> > > > >     > > > > > > enhancement to later Windows
OS version. Based on
>> > > users'
>> > > > >     > feedbacks,
>> > > > >     > > > we
>> > > > >     > > > > > can
>> > > > >     > > > > > > then officially discontinue
the Windows 7 support
>> in
>> > > the
>> > > > > next
>> > > > >     > MXNet
>> > > > >     > > > > > > release.
>> > > > >     > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > I will appreciate your comments.
>> > > > >     > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > Lin
>> > > > >     > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:37
PM Sheng Zha <
>> > > > > szha.pvg@gmail.com>
>> > > > >     > > > wrote:
>> > > > >     > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > Are any of the votes based
on any measure of
>> user
>> > > > > impact, if we
>> > > > >     > > > indeed
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > decide not to fix the
current problems?
>> > > > >     > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > -sz
>> > > > >     > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at
1:29 PM Hagay Lupesko <
>> > > > >     > lupesko@gmail.com
>> > > > >     > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >     > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > +1 (non-binding)
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > Thanks for raising
this Lin!
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > Are you suggesting
to do it as part of MXNet
>> 1.3?
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018
at 9:14 AM Srivastava,
>> Rohit
>> > > > > Kumar <
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > srivastava.141@buckeyemail.osu.edu>
wrote:
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > > +1
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > > On 8/29/18,
8:39 AM, "sandeep
>> krishnamurthy" <
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > sandeep.krishna98@gmail.com>
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     +1 Thanks
for bringing this up.
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     On Wed,
Aug 29, 2018 at 6:38 AM Marco de
>> > > Abreu
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     <marco.g.abreu@googlemail.com.invalid>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > +1
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > On
Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:08 PM kellen
>> > > > > sunderland <
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > kellen.sunderland@gmail.com>
wrote:
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
+1 (non-binding)
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 1:18 AM
>> Anirudh
>> > > > > Acharya <
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > > anirudhkrec@gmail.com>
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
wrote:
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> +1 for discontinuing.
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
>
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 4:11 PM
>> > Naveen
>> > > > > Swamy <
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > mnnaveen@gmail.com
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > wrote:
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
>
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > +1 to stop supporting Win7
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 3:54 PM
>> Lin
>> > > > Yuan
>> > > > > <
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > apeforest@gmail.com>
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > wrote:
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > Dear Community,
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > Currently, our MXNet
>> installation
>> > > > > guide for
>> > > > >     > > > Windows
>> > > > >     > > > > > > does
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > not
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > > work
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > for
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > Windows 7. e.g. Microsoft
>> Visual
>> > > > > Studio 2015
>> > > > >     > is
>> > > > >     > > > not
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > > supported on
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> Windows
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > 7
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > <
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
>
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > >
>> > > > >     > >
>> > > > >     >
>> > > > >
>> https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/support/vs2015/received-error-
>> > > > specified-program-requires-newer-version-windows/
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > >.
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > In addition, MSFT ended
>> > > “Mainstream”
>> > > > > support
>> > > > >     > > for
>> > > > >     > > > > > > Windows
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > 7
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > > in 2015
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > (
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
>
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > >
>> > > > >     > >
>> > > > >     >
>> > > > > https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-
>> > > > lifecycle-fact-sheet
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > ).
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > Therefore, it is not possible
>> for
>> > > > > developers
>> > > > >     > to
>> > > > >     > > > build
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > MXNet
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > > and
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
verify
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > the
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > fix on Windows 7 platform.
>> Given
>> > > that
>> > > > > there
>> > > > >     > > have
>> > > > >     > > > been
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > several
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > issues
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > about
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > MXNet error on Windows 7
>> > > (issue#9271
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > <
>> > > > >     > > > > >
>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/9271
>> > > > >     > > > > > > >,
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > > issue
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > #8921
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > <
>> > > > >     > > > > >
>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/8921
>> > > > >     > > > > > > >,
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > > issue
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
#11163
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > <
>> > > > >     > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/
>> > incubator-mxnet/issues/11163
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > >),
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > > it will
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> even
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > add
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > more burden on developers in
>> the
>> > > > > future if we
>> > > > >     > > > were to
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > > continue
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> supporting
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > Windows 7.
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > I therefore would like to
>> propose
>> > > > that
>> > > > > we
>> > > > >     > > > discontinue
>> > > > >     > > > > > > the
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > > support
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > of
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > MXNet
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > on Windows 7 in the next
>> release.
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > Specifically, this means the
>> > > > following
>> > > > >     > required
>> > > > >     > > > > > > actions:
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > 1) state the discontinuation
>> of
>> > > > > Windows 7
>> > > > >     > > > support in
>> > > > >     > > > > > > the
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > > release
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > note
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > 2) update the MXNet webpage if
>> > > > Windows
>> > > > >     > version
>> > > > >     > > is
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > mentioned.
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > 3) update the open Github
>> issues
>> > > > > related to
>> > > > >     > > > Windows 7
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > Please share your thoughts
>> about
>> > > this
>> > > > >     > proposal
>> > > > >     > > > and/or
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > > suggest if
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
there
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> is
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > any other missing action item
>> > from
>> > > > the
>> > > > > above.
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > Best Regards,
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > > Lin
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
> >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
>
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     --
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >     Sandeep
Krishnamurthy
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > > >
>> > > > >     > > > >
>> > > > >     > > >
>> > > > >     > >
>> > > > >     >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>

Mime
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