mxnet-dev mailing list archives

Site index · List index
Message view « Date » · « Thread »
Top « Date » · « Thread »
From Mu Li <muli....@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Propose to discontinue supporting Apache MXNet on Windows 7
Date Sat, 01 Sep 2018 23:57:55 GMT
According to google analytics, ~12% users who visited mxnet's website are
using Windows 7. It's a significant number. Even though we cannot conclude
that all of these users will run MXNet on Windows 7, I suggest we still
support win7.

BTW, anyone who can access mxnet's google analytics report can verify this
number by following this instruction:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1340778/detecting-windows-7-with-google-analytics



On Sat, Sep 1, 2018 at 1:55 PM Steffen Rochel <steffenrochel@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I support a data driven decision. Any suggestions how we can obtain insight
> about OS usage of the MXNet user community?
> Can we get such information from pip install statistics or should we
> perform a user poll on the discussion forum?
> On the other hand the lack of data should not prevent us from moving
> forward and dropping support for outdated OS.
> In any case we would have to announce dropping a platform support at least
> a release in advance.
> Steffen
>
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2018 at 12:21 PM Sheng Zha <zhasheng@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi Kellen,
> >
> > Thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately, I don't have the usage data,
> so
> > I refrained from voting. If any of the voters have such data I'd love to
> > see it too.
> >
> > -sz
> >
> > On 2018/08/30 14:58:09, kellen sunderland <kellen.sunderland@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > I haven't spoken to anyone about the decision (as I'm currently on an
> > > island in the med) but to me the quick +1s are likely a result of this
> > > being a fairly straightforward decision.  The factors that went into my
> > > thinking were (1) prioritizing growing platforms rather than shrinking
> > > platforms (i.e. thinking long term rather than shirt term) and (2)
> > earning
> > > our customers' trust.  Claiming support for a platform when we can't
> > > realistically deliver it would lose us trust.  I'd prefer to over
> deliver
> > > and under promise when it come to windows 7 for this reason.
> > >
> > > Now on the flip side one thing I would see as valuable is to try and
> get
> > > windows builds working with clang.  This could be beneficial in the
> sense
> > > that it would be easy to maintain for mxnet devs and allow us to use
> > modern
> > > cpp on older windows machines without using vs 2013(which I consider a
> > > non-starter with our codebase).
> > >
> > > You have peaked my curiousity though Sheng.  How many win7 users does
> > MXNet
> > > have relative to macos/Linux?
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 8:51 AM Sheng Zha <szha.pvg@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Yuan,
> > > >
> > > > No problem. This is an issue that's worth having a clear definition,
> so
> > > > there's nothing wrong about your proposal, and thanks for bringing
> > this up.
> > > >
> > > > I'm more concerned about the seemingly unanimous votes on dropping
> > support
> > > > on a platform without seeing the supporting evidence that it's the
> > right
> > > > thing. It is as if everyone who participated in the vote are already
> > on the
> > > > same page, and somehow I'm the only one that's not. But the only
> > argument I
> > > > hear so far is that it's technically not straightforward to continue
> > the
> > > > support, which, coming from Amazon folks, certainly doesn't sound
> > > > customer-obsessed.
> > > >
> > > > -sz
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 11:37 PM Lin Yuan <apeforest@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Sheng,
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for raising this concern. The problem now is that we cannot
> > even
> > > > > build MXNet on Windows 7 because the build process requires MS VS
> > 2015 w/
> > > > > update 3 which is incompatible on Windows 7. This leaves many
> > Windows 7
> > > > > related open issues on github without any timely response. In my
> > opinion,
> > > > > having no response to users' request is probably even worse than
> > letting
> > > > > them know the limitation of OS support.
> > > > >
> > > > > To minimize the impact to current Windows 7 users, we can provide
> > PyPi
> > > > > package for Windows 7 in this release but defer the bug fix and
> > feature
> > > > > enhancement to later Windows OS version. Based on users' feedbacks,
> > we
> > > > can
> > > > > then officially discontinue the Windows 7 support in the next MXNet
> > > > > release.
> > > > >
> > > > > I will appreciate your comments.
> > > > >
> > > > > Lin
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:37 PM Sheng Zha <szha.pvg@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Are any of the votes based on any measure of user impact, if
we
> > indeed
> > > > > > decide not to fix the current problems?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -sz
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:29 PM Hagay Lupesko <lupesko@gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > +1 (non-binding)
> > > > > > > Thanks for raising this Lin!
> > > > > > > Are you suggesting to do it as part of MXNet 1.3?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 9:14 AM Srivastava, Rohit Kumar
<
> > > > > > > srivastava.141@buckeyemail.osu.edu> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > +1
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 8/29/18, 8:39 AM, "sandeep krishnamurthy" <
> > > > > > > sandeep.krishna98@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     +1 Thanks for bringing this up.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 6:38 AM Marco de Abreu
> > > > > > > >     <marco.g.abreu@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > +1
> > > > > > > >     >
> > > > > > > >     > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 1:08 PM kellen sunderland
<
> > > > > > > >     > kellen.sunderland@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > >     >
> > > > > > > >     > > +1 (non-binding)
> > > > > > > >     > >
> > > > > > > >     > > On Wed, Aug 29, 2018, 1:18 AM Anirudh
Acharya <
> > > > > > > > anirudhkrec@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > >     > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >     > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > +1 for discontinuing.
> > > > > > > >     > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 4:11 PM
Naveen Swamy <
> > > > > > > mnnaveen@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > wrote:
> > > > > > > >     > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > +1 to stop supporting Win7
> > > > > > > >     > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 3:54
PM Lin Yuan <
> > > > > > > apeforest@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > >     > wrote:
> > > > > > > >     > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > Dear Community,
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > Currently, our MXNet
installation guide for
> > Windows
> > > > > does
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > work
> > > > > > > >     > for
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > Windows 7. e.g. Microsoft
Visual Studio 2015 is
> > not
> > > > > > > > supported on
> > > > > > > >     > > > Windows
> > > > > > > >     > > > > 7
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > <
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > >
> > > > > > > >     > >
> > > > > > > >     >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/support/vs2015/received-error-specified-program-requires-newer-version-windows/
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > >.
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > In addition, MSFT ended
“Mainstream” support
> for
> > > > > Windows
> > > > > > 7
> > > > > > > > in 2015
> > > > > > > >     > (
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > >
> > > > > > > >     > >
> > > > > > > >     >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > ).
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > Therefore, it is not
possible for developers to
> > build
> > > > > > MXNet
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > >     > > verify
> > > > > > > >     > > > > the
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > fix on Windows 7 platform.
Given that there
> have
> > been
> > > > > > > several
> > > > > > > >     > issues
> > > > > > > >     > > > > about
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > MXNet error on Windows
7 (issue#9271
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > <
> > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/9271
> > > > > >,
> > > > > > > > issue
> > > > > > > >     > #8921
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > <
> > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/8921
> > > > > >,
> > > > > > > > issue
> > > > > > > >     > > #11163
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > <
> > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/issues/11163
> > > > > > >),
> > > > > > > > it will
> > > > > > > >     > > > even
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > add
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > more burden on developers
in the future if we
> > were to
> > > > > > > > continue
> > > > > > > >     > > > supporting
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > Windows 7.
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > I therefore would like
to propose that we
> > discontinue
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > support
> > > > > > > >     > of
> > > > > > > >     > > > > MXNet
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > on Windows 7 in the next
release.
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > Specifically, this means
the following required
> > > > > actions:
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > 1) state the discontinuation
of Windows 7
> > support in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > release
> > > > > > > >     > note
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > 2) update the MXNet webpage
if Windows version
> is
> > > > > > > mentioned.
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > 3) update the open Github
issues related to
> > Windows 7
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > Please share your thoughts
about this proposal
> > and/or
> > > > > > > > suggest if
> > > > > > > >     > > there
> > > > > > > >     > > > is
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > any other missing action
item from the above.
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > Best Regards,
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > > > Lin
> > > > > > > >     > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > > >
> > > > > > > >     > > >
> > > > > > > >     > >
> > > > > > > >     >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >     --
> > > > > > > >     Sandeep Krishnamurthy
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Mime
  • Unnamed multipart/alternative (inline, None, 0 bytes)
View raw message