From dev-return-3642-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@mxnet.incubator.apache.org Wed Jul 18 19:21:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id 0D22D180636 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2018 19:21:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 12829 invoked by uid 500); 18 Jul 2018 17:21:18 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@mxnet.incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 12817 invoked by uid 99); 18 Jul 2018 17:21:17 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd3-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 18 Jul 2018 17:21:17 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd3-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd3-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id 099B6180188 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2018 17:21:17 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd3-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.119 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.119 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01] autolearn=disabled Authentication-Results: spamd3-us-west.apache.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mx1-lw-us.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd3-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.10]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GEBs0PEKBFAq for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2018 17:21:15 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-it0-f41.google.com (mail-it0-f41.google.com [209.85.214.41]) by mx1-lw-us.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-us.apache.org) with ESMTPS id B64605F3F2 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2018 17:21:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-it0-f41.google.com with SMTP id 16-v6so5215732itl.5 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2018 10:21:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=XXHaHSEEWY2TV4A+8DxJj4f3xC23FXgHr2q38NL70xs=; b=LR4HjP3yYbWFg+9FtLKSebhnDSZkY159JSKdnlCSMATuuWB5PekHybb1Y8erHfdRkH aAvP/tywJfg27oS9D5ED/qthfJfXz+ZCUlEfFAnZXheFwejkrMyvdSi7c2waxkZCgF8p p7YVFyE9t/+tERrgnV4GircjMuYEle0t4tjfVI4gnIn4YSRCzLSdpnoIHsX3QyPxyu5e vybWByB0qetGxbZ7+D74BlxeFtXA6iuqDaJF38+7JCJnfDyfqHUBTE+tfRtn3Sd3+rca 6ma6FyOzJTnhRxYaLUh4hpB5ttMfdfqfBEJ3bUXNNZf4sFriJ9hCMpyVxHBDjO+8iE9V x4wQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=XXHaHSEEWY2TV4A+8DxJj4f3xC23FXgHr2q38NL70xs=; b=CVv3Ce/uZNE4fkUsiRUkVwk06evfIeSVNFG3CRkZRlb6P58bOO4HmjjF/xHaGNKvH/ /7B0ye4qtmFG/hvRzuD49RJx1Lc3xz2Qfsq6WrU/YFtU+AukwH+/mOdSbnt75c2iPvje QVTNyQ08MiFdl0dFCFomtZb9W78eO9z1GD1ili6PLBQsvShyrtm7YmRfgrbtD2DF5KOE vSet07sEvG6EhGQXiaPztqEU3jmeE3kjStyozrytTE3A1UNTm8RSHBBcD4tRw5OleiSC 6/PqSBwQ8begd3/yoyAMI4DwE/4D8dS3qB2/2jHicRcSYM7yc1bs5ZHq/xmw6KA8aXvp zfhg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlGZeK34Be5N9rTUV1LTS1L7P6D75PePNhNL29IzJ/plymGbszsu r/7c2Z69QYsWCr7gG668b5+7nLm2bs1OKQL/3AA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpdECc4Lc/UKNgX7IA45g6X4tczzvcV9JDxbL9gBQz/yPbGt7GRjxhjiMzcWWPGHHH2ombg956bjI4QPCA45S28= X-Received: by 2002:a24:36c5:: with SMTP id l188-v6mr2698269itl.125.1531934473917; Wed, 18 Jul 2018 10:21:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <655CE88D-9862-43D4-A035-882EFF6447F1@gmail.com> <10584048-6748-431D-A380-B70045622A4E@analog.com> <2BA4B770-734A-4EE5-8582-59EC9DCFD1EF@analog.com> In-Reply-To: From: Chris Olivier Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 10:21:03 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [VOTE] Subscribe dev@ to Github Activities To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000002318700571494a8c" --0000000000002318700571494a8c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable to know about github discussions, you=E2=80=99d need to scan all issues and= prs constantly which isn=E2=80=99t a reasonable expectation. dev is where discu= ssions are supposed to happen in a apache, PERIOD. Apache isn=E2=80=99t dmlc. I wish some people would stop trying to turn Apa= che conventions into dmlc conventions. seems this is a constant push from day one. On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 9:39 AM Sheng Zha wrote: > Thanks, I hear the concerns and it's not my intention to push people off > the list. On the other hand, I think github discussions are no more > "artificial" than discussions on dev list, and the good and important > discussions warrant the same amount of attention. With this vote, I inten= d > to make contributors' life easier by decoupling the recognized forum from > the technology they use, and that github contributors can easily > communicate with the community on the list. > > -sz > > On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 9:05 AM, Barber, Christopher < > Christopher.Barber@analog.com> wrote: > > > Can't you simply tell contributors to discuss changes on dev before > > submitting a PR? Since the contribution guidelines don't tell developer= s > to > > post to dev, why would you expect them to do that? > > > > Is there an easy way to just subscribe to PR notifications or will > someone > > have to write a filter to avoid spamming dev with all GitHub > notifications? > > I think that if dev gets too much traffic, then people with casual > interest > > may find it easier to unsubscribe than to set up filters. Once someone > > unsubscribes, they probably won't be coming back soon, so you should be > > very careful with this. > > > > I don't see why artificially increasing the traffic on dev will do > > anything to grow the community in any case. > > > > - C > > > > =EF=BB=BFOn 7/18/18, 11:17 AM, "Indhu" wrote: > > > > Some mentors/contributors/committees feel that the amount of > > discussions in > > dev list is too less given the amount of commits that happen and mo= re > > discussions need to happen in the dev list to grow the community. > > > > In response some committees feel discussions actually happen in > GitHub > > PRs. > > If the policy says "if it didn't happen in dev, it didn't happen", > > let's > > forward all GitHub discussions to dev so those discussions would > count. > > That's the motivation for this vote. > > > > I think when people say there needs to be more discussions in the d= ev > > list, > > I assume they mean the kind of discussions that happen *before* a P= R > is > > created or even before someone starts working on anything. I don't > > think > > people are asking an email for every activity on GitHub. The correc= t > > way to > > address the problem would be for committees/contributors to stop > > communicating in private channels (like Amazon or DMLC communicatio= n > > channels) and do those discussions in the dev list instead. > > > > Indu > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, 5:51 AM Barber, Christopher < > > Christopher.Barber@analog.com> wrote: > > > > > Can't people already subscribe to github notifications? I think i= t > > is safe > > > to assume that developers are already smart enough to figure out > how > > to do > > > that if they want. What problem are you really trying to solve > here? > > > > > > On 7/18/18, 4:49 AM, "Chris Olivier" > wrote: > > > > > > -1. (changed from -0.9) > > > > > > seems more like a strategy (whether intentional or on acciden= t) > > to > > > *not* > > > have design discussions on dev by flooding it with noise and > > then later > > > claim it was discussed, even though you would have to sift > > through > > > thousands of emails to find it. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 12:42 AM Rahul Huilgol < > > rahulhuilgol@gmail.com > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I pulled up some more stats so we can make an informed > > decision. > > > > > > > > Here are some popular Apache projects and the number of > emails > > to > > > their > > > > dev@ > > > > list in the last 30 days > > > > Apache Flink: 540 mails > > > > =E2=80=8BApache Spark: 249 mails > > > > Apache Hive: 481 mails > > > > Apache HBase: 300 mails > > > > > > > > Current dev list for MXNet: 348 mails > > > > Current commits list for MXNet: 5329 mails > > > > Making the proposed dev list for MXNet to be ~5677 mails. > > > > > > > > Sheng, even going by your comments that 1 of of those 4 mai= ls > > are > > > relevant > > > > for dev@, that's still a really high number of emails. (130 > > email > > > lists > > > > doesn't say anything if we ignore the actual number of emai= ls > > in > > > those > > > > lists, especially when the 131st sends these many mails :) = ). > > People > > > are > > > > already talking about setting up filters here. Doesn't that > > defeat > > > the > > > > purpose by making people filter out the discussion on Githu= b? > > People > > > can > > > > subscribe to commits@ if they find it more convenient to > > follow > > > Github > > > > activity over email rather than Github.com. > > > > > > > > We should strive to maintain dev@ as a place for high > quality > > > discussion. > > > > It's upto the contributors to bring up something to dev@ if > > they > > > believe > > > > it > > > > deserves a focused discussion in the community. That > > discussion may > > > be > > > > started by the person who proposes code changes, or a > reviewer > > who > > > believes > > > > that a particular code change warrants further discussion. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Rahul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --0000000000002318700571494a8c--