From dev-return-3272-archive-asf-public=cust-asf.ponee.io@mxnet.incubator.apache.org Mon Jun 18 19:27:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Delivered-To: archive-asf-public@cust-asf.ponee.io Received: from mail.apache.org (hermes.apache.org [140.211.11.3]) by mx-eu-01.ponee.io (Postfix) with SMTP id B224F180663 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 19:27:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: (qmail 65955 invoked by uid 500); 18 Jun 2018 17:27:02 -0000 Mailing-List: contact dev-help@mxnet.incubator.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org Received: (qmail 65935 invoked by uid 99); 18 Jun 2018 17:27:02 -0000 Received: from pnap-us-west-generic-nat.apache.org (HELO spamd2-us-west.apache.org) (209.188.14.142) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:27:02 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spamd2-us-west.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at spamd2-us-west.apache.org) with ESMTP id B93BA1A0839 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:27:01 +0000 (UTC) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at spamd2-us-west.apache.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.048 tagged_above=-999 required=6.31 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.652] autolearn=disabled Received: from mx1-lw-eu.apache.org ([10.40.0.8]) by localhost (spamd2-us-west.apache.org [10.40.0.9]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a_n22VEBzd7R for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:27:00 +0000 (UTC) Received: from resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net [96.114.154.160]) by mx1-lw-eu.apache.org (ASF Mail Server at mx1-lw-eu.apache.org) with ESMTPS id 7EFDC5F295 for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:26:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from resomta-po-09v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.233]) by resqmta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTP id UsnSfbrQ1UVS9UxvYfansv; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:26:52 +0000 Received: from [192.168.199.10] ([69.251.90.98]) by resomta-po-09v.sys.comcast.net with ESMTPA id UxvWfDdQUwLQoUxvXfpd56; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:26:52 +0000 From: Jim Jagielski Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.4 \(3445.8.2\)) Subject: Re: users@mxnet Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2018 13:26:49 -0400 References: <67033f51-3a05-a3b8-b210-f7241ff726ed@apache.org> To: dev@mxnet.incubator.apache.org In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <67410792-CC77-4FB7-845D-7DAF096F28CC@jaguNET.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.8.2) X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfMJi+7U8zqVHNfZWR/D3xILmAynR1xSJU/Ik4W//DuEK5hmAq/11jKUntH5aUwFKSF9z9Dz9leRG2Jlm35nZ2PjZZSBfaP+FNrLgAItCfodeVbqcMArH +6J0w3DwteTcX0z0b8S0oT6lYnLnp1cfdbVsKURMirBnAoosWCITJJMAbH5Pef4Grhz0I1na3EXbvQ== users@ mailing lists have great societal advantages that one shouldn't = ignore... And it's not like this is the only project with "multiple" communication = choices for users. Most, if not all, projects have users@in addition to = such supplemental methods as IRC channels, a forum, etc... It's about = making it easy to have as many users as possible and as many potential = ways for users to communicate. It's not confusing; it's empowering :) > On Jun 18, 2018, at 1:19 PM, Tianqi Chen = wrote: >=20 > The problem of having multiple separate channels of communication is = that > users get confused, and the cost of maintenance goes up(people have to > watch both). As the current community was at discuss forum and many = users > prefer it, having a mail-list is only a burden we will bring >=20 > Tianqi >=20 > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:48 AM, Jim Jagielski = wrote: >=20 >> IMO, that is the wrong way to look at it. >>=20 >> A users@ mailing list is a great, easy, low-cost and low-overhead way = of >> *increasing* the user community and providing an extra level of = support. >> Unless there is "strong evidence" that this is NOT the case, I would >> recommend we create the list. >>=20 >>> On Jun 16, 2018, at 12:28 AM, Tianqi Chen >> wrote: >>>=20 >>> So unless there is a strong evidence that our community users = prefers the >>> mail-list, I would recommend we keep the current way >>>=20 >>> Tianqi >>>=20 >>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fern=C3=A1ndez = >> wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Are we targeting just Seattle as our community? I really hope we = are >>>> thinking a bit beyond that... >>>>=20 >>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen >> wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> I remember last time during the mxnet meetup in Seattle, we did a >> survey, >>>>> and most users preferred the current discuss forum. So I would say = we >>>> stick >>>>> with that given the user community prefers that >>>>>=20 >>>>> Tianqi >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fern=C3=A1ndez = >>>>> wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Then, if everybody agree, let's request the mailing list creation = to >>>>> INFRA >>>>>> ;-) >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically developers are also = subscribed >>>>> there, >>>>>> since they may be the most informed people for answering users' >>>>> questions. >>>>>> But the topics discussed there may not be of the interest for = pure >>>>>> development purposes. Some discussions will jump from users@ to = dev@, >>>>> but >>>>>> at a different level. So I wouldn't forward one mailing list to = the >>>>> other. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de Abreu >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I think nobody was opposed to it in the past, right? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I'd propose that all emails automatically get copied to dev@ to >>>> ensure >>>>>>> high >>>>>>> visibility initially. What do you think? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Sebastian schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni 2018, 20:51: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> I have already proposed this many times in the past and would >>>>> strongly >>>>>>>> encourage it. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> -s >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio Fern=C3=A1ndez wrote: >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> is there any good reason why the podling doesn't have a users@ >>>>>> mailing >>>>>>>> list >>>>>>>>> yet? >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Honestly speaking, I'm not a big fan of the other tools the >>>> podling >>>>>> is >>>>>>>>> using. Slack and Web forums a cool tools, and I used them a = lot >>>> in >>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>> contexts. But when it comes to transparency and community, >>>> mailing >>>>>>> lists >>>>>>>>> play a crucial role in the Apache Way. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Users are the most important asset a project can have. Even = more >>>>> than >>>>>>>>> developers, believe me. So I think it's time to create a = users@ >>>>>>> mailing >>>>>>>>> list for to helping MXNet grow its community beyong the core >>>> team. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>=20 >>=20