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From Marco de Abreu <marco.g.ab...@googlemail.com>
Subject Re: Clojure Package
Date Mon, 11 Jun 2018 22:24:13 GMT
Exactly, that's what I'm proposing. Having the migration in multiple
separate PRs which are done in sequence. This would mean that the initial
PRs might not be tested.
We could make the factors you mentioned acceptance criteria to be moved out
of contrib.

-Marco

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 3:17 PM Naveen Swamy <mnnaveen@gmail.com> wrote:

> I did not suggest to do it at once. I am not comfortable to merge code
> without good tests, documentation and examples that is not to say Clojure
> codebase does not have that.
> All that you are saying can happen in separate PRs if you want to break it
> up.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 12:07 AM, Marco de Abreu <
> marco.g.abreu@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > The problem I see here is that the migration will have different type of
> > challenges which should be handled isolated. Trying to solve them all at
> > once will make it very lengthy and also hard to review. Considering Carin
> > and her team this is doing this on a voluntary base, I'd like to keep the
> > number of hoops to jump through per stage as small as possible and rather
> > split it up into multiple efforts.
> >
> > If we would do everything at once, we'd have to involve a lot of people
> and
> > it would be hard to review. We'd need at least two or three reviewers
> > involved in that process: You (or another committer familiar with Scala
> to
> > review the Scala part), Yi Zhi (general reviewer) and me (CI
> integration).
> > It would probably require even more committers for other stuff that comes
> > up. It would rather be better to keep the parts that have to be touched
> as
> > isolated and few as possible.
> > For example, after the code has been approved and merged in general, I
> can
> > assist with the CI integration. This would not require oversight from
> other
> > committers, so they'd be free. After that, we'd need somebody familiar
> with
> > the release process (probably Naveen) and I'd be free after that. Then we
> > need general improvements which would also involve other people again.
> > Trying to squeeze everything into a single stage is going to make it very
> > hard in my opinion.
> >
> >
> > -Marco
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 2:56 PM Naveen Swamy <mnnaveen@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I disagree with your approach, We should bring features iteratively
> well
> > > tested and well documented. MXNet already has many different language
> > > bindings which has quite a bit of tech-debt, I don't want just to add
> > more
> > > tech-debt to the code base with new language bindings as well.
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 11:17 PM, Marco de Abreu <
> > > marco.g.abreu@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think we should try to separate this migration into multiple
> stages:
> > > > 1. Move into contrib
> > > > 2. Migrate release pipeline
> > > > 3. Migrate tests
> > > > 4. Improvements
> > > > 5. Mark as stable and announce Julia officially
> > > >
> > > > I know how much effort Carin and the other maintainers are putting
> into
> > > > that project and thus I'd like to make the migration as easy as
> > possible.
> > > > If we try to cover release, test and improvements from Day 1, we're
> > going
> > > > to make the entire migration a very hard and lengthy process.
> > Considering
> > > > the project already has its own CI and maintains a high code quality,
> > I'm
> > > > confident that some time without CI would be fine. We should make
> this
> > > > iteratively. The first big goal would really be to have the project
> in
> > > our
> > > > repository - everything else can be followed up later on.
> > > >
> > > > -Marco
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 8:08 AM Carin Meier <carinmeier@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Oh great. Thanks, Chen for clarifying. That's correct, the Clojure
> > uses
> > > > the
> > > > > Scala generation which makes use of this :)
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 9:59 AM, Naveen Swamy <mnnaveen@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > No need to be disappointed, Scala generated APIs by code
> generation
> > > for
> > > > > > ndarray and symbol and if clojure depends on Scala it get those
> as
> > > > well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Jun 10, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Chen HY <chenhy12345@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yep. An example is the cpp port used following code to generate
> > > op.h
> > > > > > > automatically.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/blob/master/
> > > > > > cpp-package/scripts/OpWrapperGenerator.py
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It makes easier for everyone to follow up with the latest APIs.
> > > > > > > It is disappointing if the python version supports the latest
> API
> > > but
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > version of your favorite language doesn't.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2018-06-10 14:19 GMT+01:00 Naveen Swamy <mnnaveen@gmail.com>:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> this is fantastic, thanks for being a champ. I am glad to have
> > you
> > > > > join
> > > > > > us
> > > > > > >> :). Yes, we would love to make it work and be available for
> our
> > > > users,
> > > > > > you
> > > > > > >> can make features available iteratively. I understand you
> alone
> > > > can't
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > >> everything in one go, I am hoping more contributors will join
> > the
> > > > > > effort.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> My guess is Chen is recommending generation of Clojure code
> from
> > > > > Scala.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>> On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 2:55 PM, Carin Meier <
> > > carinmeier@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Naveen,
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Thanks. I appreciate your help. I acknowledge there are some
> > > > > challenges
> > > > > > >> in
> > > > > > >>> trying to bring in a new language package, but I think if we
> > can
> > > > make
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > >>> work, it will be the best way for it to grow along with the
> > MXNet
> > > > > > project
> > > > > > >>> and be a good fit with its goals and ecosystem long term.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> I added a confluence page of the general state of what is
> > working
> > > > and
> > > > > > >> needs
> > > > > > >>> help.
> > > > > > >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/
> > > > > > >>> Clojure+Package+Contribution+Needs.
> > > > > > >>> Feel free to edit.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Chen,
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> I added the code generator use on the page as well. I don't
> > fully
> > > > > > >>> understand what you are proposing, but I would like to. If
> you
> > > > could
> > > > > > >>> provide some more details to help me, that would be great.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> - Carin
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>> On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 8:00 AM, Chen HY <
> > chenhy12345@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> I personally think that is the reason the clojure package
> > should
> > > > use
> > > > > > >> more
> > > > > > >>>> code generator.
> > > > > > >>>> It makes easier to build everything align with scala
> package.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> 2018-06-10 12:45 GMT+01:00 Naveen Swamy <mnnaveen@gmail.com
> >:
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> I have called for contribution within my organization to
> help
> > > > with
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >>>>> review, some of them have shown interest and hope to see
> them
> > > > help
> > > > > > >> with
> > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>> review. Carin, I learnt you are popular to have given great
> > > talks
> > > > > on
> > > > > > >>>>> Clojure.
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> Could I please ask you document what functionality is
> working
> > > and
> > > > > > >> what
> > > > > > >>>>> parts of it need contribution.
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> In general I want to request a few things:
> > > > > > >>>>> Good API documentation,
> > > > > > >>>>> Examples, turn examples into integration tests.
> > > > > > >>>>> Tests, more tests
> > > > > > >>>>> Everything testable on CI.
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> In the long term, We have to think how to maintain API
> > > > > compatibility
> > > > > > >>> and
> > > > > > >>>>> tests across language bindings.
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> Thanks, Naveen
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 2:38 AM, YiZhi Liu <
> > eazhi.liu@gmail.com
> > > >
> > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Carin,
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Thank you for the great work. I'll do the review. As I
> have
> > no
> > > > > > >>>>>> expertise in Clojure, it will really help to have people
> > from
> > > > > > >> Clojure
> > > > > > >>>>>> community reviewing it as well :)
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> 2018-06-08 14:22 GMT-07:00 Carin Meier <
> > carinmeier@gmail.com
> > > >:
> > > > > > >>>>>>> A couple of questions came up in regard to the PR and the
> > > > current
> > > > > > >>>> test
> > > > > > >>>>>>> suite state as well as the best way to review the PR
> since
> > it
> > > > is
> > > > > > >> a
> > > > > > >>>> new
> > > > > > >>>>>>> language binding.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> In regards to the Clojure test suite, most of the Scala
> > test
> > > > > > >> suite
> > > > > > >>>> has
> > > > > > >>>>>> been
> > > > > > >>>>>>> ported over with the goal of having comparable coverage.
> I
> > > can
> > > > go
> > > > > > >>>>> ahead a
> > > > > > >>>>>>> put in a coverage tool to make that it a bit more
> > > transparent.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> For reviewing, I have a couple people in the Clojure
> > > community
> > > > > > >> that
> > > > > > >>>> are
> > > > > > >>>>>>> interested in collaborating in this project and I can ask
> > > them
> > > > > > >> for
> > > > > > >>>> help
> > > > > > >>>>>> in
> > > > > > >>>>>>> reviewing the PR in some way if that is helpful too.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> I'm also open to other suggestions.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> Thanks,
> > > > > > >>>>>>> Carin
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 4:06 PM, Carin Meier <
> > > > > > >> carinmeier@gmail.com>
> > > > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Here is the PR https://github.com/apache/
> > > > > > >>> incubator-mxnet/pull/11205
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I've ported in the content from the external github
> repo (
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://github.com/gigasquid/clojure-mxnet), that has
> > been
> > > > > > >> tested
> > > > > > >>>> by
> > > > > > >>>>>> some
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> of the Clojure community, into the contrib directory.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> There is still lots more to do in relation to adding
> > tests,
> > > > > > >>>>> benchmarks,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> and increasing stability, but I thought this might be a
> > good
> > > > > > >> point
> > > > > > >>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>> bring
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> it in initially so that the other work can be reviewed
> in
> > > > > > >> smaller
> > > > > > >>>>>> chunks.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I also would like to get other people involved in making
> > it
> > > > > > >>> better,
> > > > > > >>>>> so I
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> thought that having the base package in there would be a
> > > good
> > > > > > >>>> starting
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> point for collaboration.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Feedback welcome.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> - Carin
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 11:40 AM, Carin Meier <
> > > > > > >>> carinmeier@gmail.com>
> > > > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone. I'll work on getting together a PR
> with
> > > your
> > > > > > >>>>> feedback
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> and post it here.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 4:05 AM, Chen HY <
> > > > chenhy12345@gmail.com
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> I would suggest using code generators in case upstream
> > > > library
> > > > > > >>>>> adding
> > > > > > >>>>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> functions for arrays.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> It seems that cpp binding is using a code generator
> and
> > > > works
> > > > > > >>>> fine.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> 2018-06-05 7:59 GMT+01:00 Naveen Swamy <
> > > mnnaveen@gmail.com
> > > > >:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ~/mxnet/contrib/clojure-package good place for the
> > code.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the package name org.apache.mxnet.contrib.clojure ?
> do
> > > you
> > > > > > >>> need
> > > > > > >>>>>> mxnet
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> again?
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I forgot to request to run some benchmarks and
> > document.
> > > > One
> > > > > > >>> of
> > > > > > >>>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> reasons
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> users use MXNet is because of its performance and we
> > want
> > > > to
> > > > > > >>>>> ensure
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> that we
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> maintain it across language bindings.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Also invite your other clojure programmer buddies to
> > the
> > > > > > >> party
> > > > > > >>>> :)
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Naveen
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 1:55 PM, Carin Meier <
> > > > > > >>>> carinmeier@gmail.com
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Oh right. That's not a problem, I wonder if
> something
> > > like
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.mxnet.contrib/clojure-mxnet
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> would work?
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> If this seems like it is the right direction, we
> could
> > > > > > >> work
> > > > > > >>>> out
> > > > > > >>>>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> details
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> in a PR.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Naveen Swamy <
> > > > > > >>>>> mnnaveen@gmail.com>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with your assessment that we shouldn't need
> > the
> > > > > > >>> user
> > > > > > >>>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> change
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> their code. I am not sure if we can release under
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.clojure-mxnet
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> we might have to stick with our primary group id
> > > > > > >>>>>> org.apache.mxnet
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> may
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> be create a sub-package under it? any creative
> ideas?
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 1:29 PM, Carin Meier <
> > > > > > >>>>>> carinmeier@gmail.com>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the feedback everyone.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree on the contrib option. I think it's a
> great
> > > > > > >> path
> > > > > > >>>>>> forward
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> would
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> allow it time for feedback, contribution by
> others,
> > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> stabilization.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I'm understanding correctly, that would mean
> > > > > > >> putting
> > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> source
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> code
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> in:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~/mxnet/contrib/clojure-package
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and having the artifact jar named
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> `org.apache.contrib.clojure-mxnet/clojure-mxnet`
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would recommend not having the individual
> > namespaces
> > > > > > >>> of
> > > > > > >>>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> files
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> have
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> contrib embedded in them, so that if it graduates,
> > > > > > >> users
> > > > > > >>>>> won't
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> have
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> change their code, only the dependency.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please let me know if this is correct or if there
> > are
> > > > > > >>> any
> > > > > > >>>>>> other
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ideas.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Carin
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 4:03 PM, Naveen Swamy <
> > > > > > >>>>>> mnnaveen@gmail.com
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that's a great idea to bring in under
> > > > > > >> contrib
> > > > > > >>>> and
> > > > > > >>>>> we
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> can
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> also
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> get
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> user feedback
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 4, 2018, at 12:44 PM, sandeep
> > > > > > >> krishnamurthy <
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sandeep.krishna98@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Carin,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a commendable work. Thanks a lot for all
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >>>>> hard
> > > > > > >>>>>> and
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> smart
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have put behind this :-) I think this will
> be
> > > > > > >> a
> > > > > > >>>>> great
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> value
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> addition.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If people are not sure about usage, can I
> suggest
> > > > > > >>> this
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> awesome
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> work
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brought in "contrib" package? Invite and build
> the
> > > > > > >>>>>> community
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> around
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clojure, stabilize and increase the coverage,
> and
> > > > > > >>>> based
> > > > > > >>>>> on
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> usage
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development, graduate it to main stable support
> > > > > > >> from
> > > > > > >>>>>> contrib.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions and thoughts?
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sandeep
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 12:27 PM, Ivan Serdyuk <
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local.tourist.kiev@gmail.com>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A small comment, about Scala API: main
> commiters
> > > > > > >>> are
> > > > > > >>>>>> hardly
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> available,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for today.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for Clojure - I might suggest that it might
> be
> > > > > > >>>>>> possible
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> enlight
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future work, for that package, for Clojure
> > > > > > >>>> developers.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 8:50 PM, Naveen Swamy <
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> mnnaveen@gmail.com
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Carin,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is great effort and very nicely
> documented.
> > > > > > >>>> When
> > > > > > >>>>> I
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> surveyed
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> at
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> day
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job on the interest for Scala packages there
> > > > > > >> were
> > > > > > >>> a
> > > > > > >>>>> few
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> people
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> who
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specifically were interested in the Clojure
> > > > > > >>>> packages,
> > > > > > >>>>> I
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> think
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> those
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people who might have tried and understand the
> > > > > > >>>>>> complexity
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> of
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> making
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scala
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work in Clojure.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am in support of a MXNet-Clojure package, I
> > > > > > >>>> request
> > > > > > >>>>>> you
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> add
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> more
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unit
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tests and integration tests that can be ported
> > > > > > >> to
> > > > > > >>>> CI.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your efforts.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Naveen
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 6:16 PM, Carin Meier <
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> carinmeier@gmail.com>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is always a good thing to consider the
> cost
> > > > > > >>> with
> > > > > > >>>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> benefit.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best to explain what I see the tradeoffs to
> be.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First, I wanted to clarify that it took
> > > > > > >>> significant
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> development
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the Clojure package and the interop
> working
> > > > > > >>>>>> properly
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> despite
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> my
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simple
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking design on the confluence page :)
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One of the advantages of MXNet over its
> > > > > > >>> competitors
> > > > > > >>>>> is
> > > > > > >>>>>> its
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> many
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support. The Clojure package would only
> > > > > > >> increase
> > > > > > >>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> value of
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> this
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proposition and bring new users and growth
> into
> > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> community.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, there is a cost associated with
> adding
> > > > > > >>>> this
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> language
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> support
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you pointed out.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the Clojure package right now is only
> > > > > > >>> reliant
> > > > > > >>>>> on
> > > > > > >>>>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Scala
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> jars
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maven, it can exist outside the main project
> as
> > > > > > >>> an
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> independent
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> repo
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think that would lessen the growth benefit
> both
> > > > > > >>> to
> > > > > > >>>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Clojure
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and to the MXNet community to not be included
> > > > > > >> as
> > > > > > >>> a
> > > > > > >>>>>> first
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> class
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe having first class Clojure support
> in
> > > > > > >>>> MXNet
> > > > > > >>>>>> is
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> valuable,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cost of that support is up to the community
> to
> > > > > > >>>>> decide.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a process for considering a new
> > > > > > >> package
> > > > > > >>> in
> > > > > > >>>>>> MXNet?
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Carin
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 5:51 PM, Chen HY <
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> chenhy12345@gmail.com
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have checked the issue and the confluence
> > > > > > >> page,
> > > > > > >>>> but
> > > > > > >>>>>> still
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> curious.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clojure and Scala are both JVM based
> > > > > > >> languages.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They, as well as many JVM based languages,
> can
> > > > > > >>>> share
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> their
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> class
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> method
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at a certain level.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why should the community maintain two APIs
> for
> > > > > > >>> two
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> languages
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> with
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> share
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their packages with almost zero effort?
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018-06-01 21:58 GMT+01:00 Carin Meier <
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> carinmeier@gmail.com
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> :
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been working on a Clojure package for
> > > > > > >>> MXNet.
> > > > > > >>>>>> Since
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Clojure
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> is
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JVM
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language, the package leverages the great
> > > > > > >> work
> > > > > > >>> of
> > > > > > >>>>> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> existing
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scala
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> package.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would appreciate any feedback and
> testing.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is the original issue:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/
> > > > > > >>>>>> incubator-mxnet/issues/8971
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Architecture & Design:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/
> > > > > > >>>> confluence/display/MXNET/
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> MXNet+Clojure
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the github repo for rapid testing and
> > > > > > >> issue
> > > > > > >>>>>> fixing
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> before
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> of
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opening
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> official PR https://github.com/gigasquid/
> > > > > > >>>>>> clojure-mxnet
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm also active in the slack channel so
> feel
> > > > > > >>> free
> > > > > > >>>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> ping me
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carin Meier
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chen Hanyang 陈涵洋
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Software School Fudan University
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +86-138-1881-7745
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sandeep Krishnamurthy
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Chen Hanyang 陈涵洋
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Software School Fudan University
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> +86-138-1881-7745
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> --
> > > > > > >>>>>> Yizhi Liu
> > > > > > >>>>>> DMLC member
> > > > > > >>>>>> Amazon Web Services
> > > > > > >>>>>> Vancouver, Canada
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> --
> > > > > > >>>> Chen Hanyang 陈涵洋
> > > > > > >>>> Software School Fudan University
> > > > > > >>>> +86-138-1881-7745
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Chen Hanyang 陈涵洋
> > > > > > > Software School Fudan University
> > > > > > > +86-138-1881-7745
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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