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From Hagay Lupesko <lupe...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Clojure Package
Date Mon, 18 Jun 2018 20:01:05 GMT
Carin,

Thanks for contributing so much to MXNet!
I just went through the planned MXNet v1.3 release scope [1], and did not
see the Clojure package. I think it would be a great addition to MXNet, and
initially can be marked as experimental.

Did you consider adding it to MXNet 1.3 as an experimental feature?

Hagay

[1]
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/Project+Proposals+for+next+MXNet+Release


On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 5:52 AM Carin Meier <carinmeier@gmail.com> wrote:

> Kovas Boguta https://twitter.com/kovasb, from the Clojure/AI community,
> graciously took some time to review the PR for the clojure package.
>
> He had some insightful feedback and high level questions that I thought
> might be of interest to the larger dev mailing list.
>
> https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/pull/11205
>
> Feel free to join in on the discussion here or on the PR.
>
> - Carin
>
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 6:49 PM, Carin Meier <carinmeier@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm fine with whatever process works best and what makes everyone the
> most
> > comfortable.
> >
> > I've completed one of the requests for code coverage and integrated the
> > cloverage, (https://github.com/cloverage/cloverage), plugin in the PR
> > branch. I've published the results to the confluence page to help with
> > transparency and give everyone a better idea where the level of testing
> is
> > currently.
> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/
> > Clojure+Package+Contribution+Needs
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 6:24 PM, Marco de Abreu <
> > marco.g.abreu@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Exactly, that's what I'm proposing. Having the migration in multiple
> >> separate PRs which are done in sequence. This would mean that the
> initial
> >> PRs might not be tested.
> >> We could make the factors you mentioned acceptance criteria to be moved
> >> out
> >> of contrib.
> >>
> >> -Marco
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 3:17 PM Naveen Swamy <mnnaveen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I did not suggest to do it at once. I am not comfortable to merge code
> >> > without good tests, documentation and examples that is not to say
> >> Clojure
> >> > codebase does not have that.
> >> > All that you are saying can happen in separate PRs if you want to
> break
> >> it
> >> > up.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 12:07 AM, Marco de Abreu <
> >> > marco.g.abreu@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > The problem I see here is that the migration will have different
> type
> >> of
> >> > > challenges which should be handled isolated. Trying to solve them
> all
> >> at
> >> > > once will make it very lengthy and also hard to review. Considering
> >> Carin
> >> > > and her team this is doing this on a voluntary base, I'd like to
> keep
> >> the
> >> > > number of hoops to jump through per stage as small as possible and
> >> rather
> >> > > split it up into multiple efforts.
> >> > >
> >> > > If we would do everything at once, we'd have to involve a lot of
> >> people
> >> > and
> >> > > it would be hard to review. We'd need at least two or three
> reviewers
> >> > > involved in that process: You (or another committer familiar with
> >> Scala
> >> > to
> >> > > review the Scala part), Yi Zhi (general reviewer) and me (CI
> >> > integration).
> >> > > It would probably require even more committers for other stuff that
> >> comes
> >> > > up. It would rather be better to keep the parts that have to be
> >> touched
> >> > as
> >> > > isolated and few as possible.
> >> > > For example, after the code has been approved and merged in
> general, I
> >> > can
> >> > > assist with the CI integration. This would not require oversight
> from
> >> > other
> >> > > committers, so they'd be free. After that, we'd need somebody
> familiar
> >> > with
> >> > > the release process (probably Naveen) and I'd be free after that.
> >> Then we
> >> > > need general improvements which would also involve other people
> again.
> >> > > Trying to squeeze everything into a single stage is going to make it
> >> very
> >> > > hard in my opinion.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > -Marco
> >> > >
> >> > > On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 2:56 PM Naveen Swamy <mnnaveen@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > I disagree with your approach, We should bring features
> iteratively
> >> > well
> >> > > > tested and well documented. MXNet already has many different
> >> language
> >> > > > bindings which has quite a bit of tech-debt, I don't want just to
> >> add
> >> > > more
> >> > > > tech-debt to the code base with new language bindings as well.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 11:17 PM, Marco de Abreu <
> >> > > > marco.g.abreu@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > I think we should try to separate this migration into multiple
> >> > stages:
> >> > > > > 1. Move into contrib
> >> > > > > 2. Migrate release pipeline
> >> > > > > 3. Migrate tests
> >> > > > > 4. Improvements
> >> > > > > 5. Mark as stable and announce Julia officially
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I know how much effort Carin and the other maintainers are
> putting
> >> > into
> >> > > > > that project and thus I'd like to make the migration as easy as
> >> > > possible.
> >> > > > > If we try to cover release, test and improvements from Day 1,
> >> we're
> >> > > going
> >> > > > > to make the entire migration a very hard and lengthy process.
> >> > > Considering
> >> > > > > the project already has its own CI and maintains a high code
> >> quality,
> >> > > I'm
> >> > > > > confident that some time without CI would be fine. We should
> make
> >> > this
> >> > > > > iteratively. The first big goal would really be to have the
> >> project
> >> > in
> >> > > > our
> >> > > > > repository - everything else can be followed up later on.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > -Marco
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 8:08 AM Carin Meier <
> carinmeier@gmail.com
> >> >
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > Oh great. Thanks, Chen for clarifying. That's correct, the
> >> Clojure
> >> > > uses
> >> > > > > the
> >> > > > > > Scala generation which makes use of this :)
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 9:59 AM, Naveen Swamy <
> >> mnnaveen@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > No need to be disappointed, Scala generated APIs by code
> >> > generation
> >> > > > for
> >> > > > > > > ndarray and symbol and if clojure depends on Scala it get
> >> those
> >> > as
> >> > > > > well.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > On Jun 10, 2018, at 3:40 PM, Chen HY <
> chenhy12345@gmail.com
> >> >
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Yep. An example is the cpp port used following code to
> >> generate
> >> > > > op.h
> >> > > > > > > > automatically.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-mxnet/blob/master/
> >> > > > > > > cpp-package/scripts/OpWrapperGenerator.py
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > It makes easier for everyone to follow up with the latest
> >> APIs.
> >> > > > > > > > It is disappointing if the python version supports the
> >> latest
> >> > API
> >> > > > but
> >> > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > version of your favorite language doesn't.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > 2018-06-10 14:19 GMT+01:00 Naveen Swamy <
> mnnaveen@gmail.com
> >> >:
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >> this is fantastic, thanks for being a champ. I am glad to
> >> have
> >> > > you
> >> > > > > > join
> >> > > > > > > us
> >> > > > > > > >> :). Yes, we would love to make it work and be available
> for
> >> > our
> >> > > > > users,
> >> > > > > > > you
> >> > > > > > > >> can make features available iteratively. I understand you
> >> > alone
> >> > > > > can't
> >> > > > > > > have
> >> > > > > > > >> everything in one go, I am hoping more contributors will
> >> join
> >> > > the
> >> > > > > > > effort.
> >> > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > >> My guess is Chen is recommending generation of Clojure
> code
> >> > from
> >> > > > > > Scala.
> >> > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > >>> On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 2:55 PM, Carin Meier <
> >> > > > carinmeier@gmail.com
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > >>> Naveen,
> >> > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > >>> Thanks. I appreciate your help. I acknowledge there are
> >> some
> >> > > > > > challenges
> >> > > > > > > >> in
> >> > > > > > > >>> trying to bring in a new language package, but I think
> if
> >> we
> >> > > can
> >> > > > > make
> >> > > > > > > it
> >> > > > > > > >>> work, it will be the best way for it to grow along with
> >> the
> >> > > MXNet
> >> > > > > > > project
> >> > > > > > > >>> and be a good fit with its goals and ecosystem long
> term.
> >> > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > >>> I added a confluence page of the general state of what
> is
> >> > > working
> >> > > > > and
> >> > > > > > > >> needs
> >> > > > > > > >>> help.
> >> > > > > > > >>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/MXNET/
> >> > > > > > > >>> Clojure+Package+Contribution+Needs.
> >> > > > > > > >>> Feel free to edit.
> >> > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > >>> Chen,
> >> > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > >>> I added the code generator use on the page as well. I
> >> don't
> >> > > fully
> >> > > > > > > >>> understand what you are proposing, but I would like to.
> If
> >> > you
> >> > > > > could
> >> > > > > > > >>> provide some more details to help me, that would be
> great.
> >> > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > >>> - Carin
> >> > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>> On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 8:00 AM, Chen HY <
> >> > > chenhy12345@gmail.com
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>> I personally think that is the reason the clojure
> package
> >> > > should
> >> > > > > use
> >> > > > > > > >> more
> >> > > > > > > >>>> code generator.
> >> > > > > > > >>>> It makes easier to build everything align with scala
> >> > package.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>> 2018-06-10 12:45 GMT+01:00 Naveen Swamy <
> >> mnnaveen@gmail.com
> >> > >:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> I have called for contribution within my organization
> to
> >> > help
> >> > > > > with
> >> > > > > > > >> the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> review, some of them have shown interest and hope to
> see
> >> > them
> >> > > > > help
> >> > > > > > > >> with
> >> > > > > > > >>>> the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> review. Carin, I learnt you are popular to have given
> >> great
> >> > > > talks
> >> > > > > > on
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> Clojure.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> Could I please ask you document what functionality is
> >> > working
> >> > > > and
> >> > > > > > > >> what
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> parts of it need contribution.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> In general I want to request a few things:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> Good API documentation,
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> Examples, turn examples into integration tests.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> Tests, more tests
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> Everything testable on CI.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> In the long term, We have to think how to maintain API
> >> > > > > > compatibility
> >> > > > > > > >>> and
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> tests across language bindings.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> Thanks, Naveen
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> On Sat, Jun 9, 2018 at 2:38 AM, YiZhi Liu <
> >> > > eazhi.liu@gmail.com
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> Carin,
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> Thank you for the great work. I'll do the review. As
> I
> >> > have
> >> > > no
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> expertise in Clojure, it will really help to have
> >> people
> >> > > from
> >> > > > > > > >> Clojure
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> community reviewing it as well :)
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> 2018-06-08 14:22 GMT-07:00 Carin Meier <
> >> > > carinmeier@gmail.com
> >> > > > >:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> A couple of questions came up in regard to the PR
> and
> >> the
> >> > > > > current
> >> > > > > > > >>>> test
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> suite state as well as the best way to review the PR
> >> > since
> >> > > it
> >> > > > > is
> >> > > > > > > >> a
> >> > > > > > > >>>> new
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> language binding.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> In regards to the Clojure test suite, most of the
> >> Scala
> >> > > test
> >> > > > > > > >> suite
> >> > > > > > > >>>> has
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> been
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> ported over with the goal of having comparable
> >> coverage.
> >> > I
> >> > > > can
> >> > > > > go
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> ahead a
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> put in a coverage tool to make that it a bit more
> >> > > > transparent.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> For reviewing, I have a couple people in the Clojure
> >> > > > community
> >> > > > > > > >> that
> >> > > > > > > >>>> are
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> interested in collaborating in this project and I
> can
> >> ask
> >> > > > them
> >> > > > > > > >> for
> >> > > > > > > >>>> help
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> in
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> reviewing the PR in some way if that is helpful too.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> I'm also open to other suggestions.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> Carin
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 8, 2018 at 4:06 PM, Carin Meier <
> >> > > > > > > >> carinmeier@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Here is the PR https://github.com/apache/
> >> > > > > > > >>> incubator-mxnet/pull/11205
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> I've ported in the content from the external github
> >> > repo (
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://github.com/gigasquid/clojure-mxnet), that
> >> has
> >> > > been
> >> > > > > > > >> tested
> >> > > > > > > >>>> by
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> some
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> of the Clojure community, into the contrib
> directory.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> There is still lots more to do in relation to
> adding
> >> > > tests,
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> benchmarks,
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> and increasing stability, but I thought this might
> >> be a
> >> > > good
> >> > > > > > > >> point
> >> > > > > > > >>>> to
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> bring
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> it in initially so that the other work can be
> >> reviewed
> >> > in
> >> > > > > > > >> smaller
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> chunks.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> I also would like to get other people involved in
> >> making
> >> > > it
> >> > > > > > > >>> better,
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> so I
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> thought that having the base package in there would
> >> be a
> >> > > > good
> >> > > > > > > >>>> starting
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> point for collaboration.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> Feedback welcome.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> - Carin
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 11:40 AM, Carin Meier <
> >> > > > > > > >>> carinmeier@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone. I'll work on getting together a
> PR
> >> > with
> >> > > > your
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> feedback
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> and post it here.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 4:05 AM, Chen HY <
> >> > > > > chenhy12345@gmail.com
> >> > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> I would suggest using code generators in case
> >> upstream
> >> > > > > library
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> adding
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> functions for arrays.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> It seems that cpp binding is using a code
> generator
> >> > and
> >> > > > > works
> >> > > > > > > >>>> fine.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> 2018-06-05 7:59 GMT+01:00 Naveen Swamy <
> >> > > > mnnaveen@gmail.com
> >> > > > > >:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ~/mxnet/contrib/clojure-package good place for
> >> the
> >> > > code.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the package name
> org.apache.mxnet.contrib.clojure
> >> ?
> >> > do
> >> > > > you
> >> > > > > > > >>> need
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> mxnet
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> again?
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I forgot to request to run some benchmarks and
> >> > > document.
> >> > > > > One
> >> > > > > > > >>> of
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> reasons
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> users use MXNet is because of its performance
> and
> >> we
> >> > > want
> >> > > > > to
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> ensure
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> that we
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> maintain it across language bindings.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Also invite your other clojure programmer
> buddies
> >> to
> >> > > the
> >> > > > > > > >> party
> >> > > > > > > >>>> :)
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Naveen
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 1:55 PM, Carin Meier <
> >> > > > > > > >>>> carinmeier@gmail.com
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Oh right. That's not a problem, I wonder if
> >> > something
> >> > > > like
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.mxnet.contrib/clojure-mxnet
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> would work?
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> If this seems like it is the right direction,
> we
> >> > could
> >> > > > > > > >> work
> >> > > > > > > >>>> out
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> details
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> in a PR.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Naveen Swamy <
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> mnnaveen@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with your assessment that we shouldn't
> >> need
> >> > > the
> >> > > > > > > >>> user
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> to
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> change
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> their code. I am not sure if we can release
> >> under
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> org.apache.clojure-mxnet
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> we might have to stick with our primary group
> id
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> org.apache.mxnet
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> and
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> may
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> be create a sub-package under it? any creative
> >> > ideas?
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 1:29 PM, Carin Meier <
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> carinmeier@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the feedback everyone.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree on the contrib option. I think it's a
> >> > great
> >> > > > > > > >> path
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> forward
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> and
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> would
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> allow it time for feedback, contribution by
> >> > others,
> >> > > > > > > >> and
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> stabilization.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I'm understanding correctly, that would
> mean
> >> > > > > > > >> putting
> >> > > > > > > >>>> the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> source
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> code
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> in:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~/mxnet/contrib/clojure-package
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and having the artifact jar named
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> `org.apache.contrib.clojure-mx
> >> net/clojure-mxnet`
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would recommend not having the individual
> >> > > namespaces
> >> > > > > > > >>> of
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> files
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> have
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> contrib embedded in them, so that if it
> >> graduates,
> >> > > > > > > >> users
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> won't
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> have
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> change their code, only the dependency.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please let me know if this is correct or if
> >> there
> >> > > are
> >> > > > > > > >>> any
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> other
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ideas.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Carin
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 4:03 PM, Naveen Swamy
> <
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> mnnaveen@gmail.com
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that's a great idea to bring in
> under
> >> > > > > > > >> contrib
> >> > > > > > > >>>> and
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> we
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> can
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> also
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> get
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> user feedback
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 4, 2018, at 12:44 PM, sandeep
> >> > > > > > > >> krishnamurthy <
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sandeep.krishna98@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Carin,
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is a commendable work. Thanks a lot
> for
> >> all
> >> > > > > > > >> the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> hard
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> and
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> smart
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you have put behind this :-) I think this
> >> will
> >> > be
> >> > > > > > > >> a
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> great
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> value
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> addition.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If people are not sure about usage, can I
> >> > suggest
> >> > > > > > > >>> this
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> awesome
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> work
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> brought in "contrib" package? Invite and
> >> build
> >> > the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> community
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> around
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clojure, stabilize and increase the
> coverage,
> >> > and
> >> > > > > > > >>>> based
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> on
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> usage
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> development, graduate it to main stable
> >> support
> >> > > > > > > >> from
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> contrib.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suggestions and thoughts?
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sandeep
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 12:27 PM, Ivan
> >> Serdyuk <
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local.tourist.kiev@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A small comment, about Scala API: main
> >> > commiters
> >> > > > > > > >>> are
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> hardly
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> available,
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for today.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As for Clojure - I might suggest that it
> >> might
> >> > be
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> possible
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> to
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> enlight
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> future work, for that package, for Clojure
> >> > > > > > > >>>> developers.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2018 at 8:50 PM, Naveen
> >> Swamy <
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> mnnaveen@gmail.com
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Carin,
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is great effort and very nicely
> >> > documented.
> >> > > > > > > >>>> When
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> I
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> surveyed
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> at
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> day
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job on the interest for Scala packages
> >> there
> >> > > > > > > >> were
> >> > > > > > > >>> a
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> few
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> people
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> who
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specifically were interested in the
> Clojure
> >> > > > > > > >>>> packages,
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> I
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> think
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> those
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people who might have tried and
> understand
> >> the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> complexity
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> of
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> making
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scala
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work in Clojure.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am in support of a MXNet-Clojure
> >> package, I
> >> > > > > > > >>>> request
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> you
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> to
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> add
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> more
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unit
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tests and integration tests that can be
> >> ported
> >> > > > > > > >> to
> >> > > > > > > >>>> CI.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for your efforts.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Naveen
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 6:16 PM, Carin
> >> Meier <
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> carinmeier@gmail.com>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It is always a good thing to consider
> the
> >> > cost
> >> > > > > > > >>> with
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> benefit.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> best to explain what I see the tradeoffs
> >> to
> >> > be.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First, I wanted to clarify that it took
> >> > > > > > > >>> significant
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> development
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> effort
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get the Clojure package and the interop
> >> > working
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> properly
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> despite
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> my
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simple
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking design on the confluence page :)
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One of the advantages of MXNet over its
> >> > > > > > > >>> competitors
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> is
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> its
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> many
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> support. The Clojure package would only
> >> > > > > > > >> increase
> >> > > > > > > >>>> the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> value of
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> this
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proposition and bring new users and
> growth
> >> > into
> >> > > > > > > >>> the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> community.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> However, there is a cost associated with
> >> > adding
> >> > > > > > > >>>> this
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> language
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> support
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you pointed out.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since the Clojure package right now is
> >> only
> >> > > > > > > >>> reliant
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> on
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Scala
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> jars
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maven, it can exist outside the main
> >> project
> >> > as
> >> > > > > > > >>> an
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> independent
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> repo
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think that would lessen the growth
> benefit
> >> > both
> >> > > > > > > >>> to
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Clojure
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> community
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and to the MXNet community to not be
> >> included
> >> > > > > > > >> as
> >> > > > > > > >>> a
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> first
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> class
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe having first class Clojure
> >> support
> >> > in
> >> > > > > > > >>>> MXNet
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> is
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> valuable,
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cost of that support is up to the
> >> community
> >> > to
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> decide.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a process for considering a new
> >> > > > > > > >> package
> >> > > > > > > >>> in
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> MXNet?
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - Carin
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 1, 2018 at 5:51 PM, Chen
> HY <
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> chenhy12345@gmail.com
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have checked the issue and the
> confluence
> >> > > > > > > >> page,
> >> > > > > > > >>>> but
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> still
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> curious.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clojure and Scala are both JVM based
> >> > > > > > > >> languages.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They, as well as many JVM based
> >> languages,
> >> > can
> >> > > > > > > >>>> share
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> their
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> class
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> method
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at a certain level.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Why should the community maintain two
> >> APIs
> >> > for
> >> > > > > > > >>> two
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> languages
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> with
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> share
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their packages with almost zero effort?
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2018-06-01 21:58 GMT+01:00 Carin Meier
> <
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> carinmeier@gmail.com
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> :
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been working on a Clojure package
> >> for
> >> > > > > > > >>> MXNet.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> Since
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Clojure
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> is
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JVM
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language, the package leverages the
> >> great
> >> > > > > > > >> work
> >> > > > > > > >>> of
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> the
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> existing
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Scala
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> package.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would appreciate any feedback and
> >> > testing.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Here is the original issue:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/apache/
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> incubator-mxnet/issues/8971
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Architecture & Design:
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/
> >> > > > > > > >>>> confluence/display/MXNET/
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> MXNet+Clojure
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the github repo for rapid testing
> >> and
> >> > > > > > > >> issue
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> fixing
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> before
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> of
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opening
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> official PR
> >> https://github.com/gigasquid/
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> clojure-mxnet
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm also active in the slack channel
> so
> >> > feel
> >> > > > > > > >>> free
> >> > > > > > > >>>>> to
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> ping me
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there.
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Carin Meier
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chen Hanyang 陈涵洋
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Software School Fudan University
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> +86-138-1881-7745
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sandeep Krishnamurthy
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> --
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Chen Hanyang 陈涵洋
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Software School Fudan University
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> +86-138-1881-7745
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> --
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> Yizhi Liu
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> DMLC member
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> Amazon Web Services
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>> Vancouver, Canada
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>> --
> >> > > > > > > >>>> Chen Hanyang 陈涵洋
> >> > > > > > > >>>> Software School Fudan University
> >> > > > > > > >>>> +86-138-1881-7745
> >> > > > > > > >>>>
> >> > > > > > > >>>
> >> > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > --
> >> > > > > > > > Chen Hanyang 陈涵洋
> >> > > > > > > > Software School Fudan University
> >> > > > > > > > +86-138-1881-7745
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>

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