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From Da Zheng <zhengda1...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: users@mxnet
Date Sun, 17 Jun 2018 02:17:46 GMT
I also agree with Indu's points.

I feel like the mailing list is more for hackers. Typical MXNet users
are machine learning scientists and not necessarily like discussing
problems in a hacker's way.
Since we already have a discussion forum, why should we create a new
one and get users confused where to ask questions?

Best,
Da

On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 5:23 PM, Hagay Lupesko <lupesko@gmail.com> wrote:
> Agree with Indu's points: email list usability and features seems inferior
> compared to the discussion forum, so I would suggest to keep things simple
> and stick with the forum.
>
> Hagay
>
> On Sat, Jun 16, 2018, 06:37 Timur Shenkao <tsh@timshenkao.su> wrote:
>
>> user mail list
>>
>> Pros:
>> - Apache user mail list is indexed and kept forever in mailing lists. Very
>> convenient.
>> - Apache user mail list is indexed by search engines actively and info
>> appears in search results pretty soon.
>> - You just get e-mails and when you have spare time read & answer them.
>>
>> Cons:
>> - Unless there are active people, user mail list may become "cemetery" of
>> unanswered questions
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 16, 2018 at 9:24 AM, Marco de Abreu <
>> marco.g.abreu@googlemail.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> > Very good points Indu. I also think that the discussion forum is
>> definitely
>> > of big value and that we should keep it. But I also don't think it would
>> > hurt anybody is we open up a new channel of communication, considering
>> that
>> > managing an email list doesn't cause any additional overhead.
>> >
>> > Indhu <indhubharathi@gmail.com> schrieb am Sa., 16. Juni 2018, 00:37:
>> >
>> > > I prefer the discuss forum over email for following reasons:
>> > >
>> > > 1. It is easier for newcomers. People can login using Facebook, Twitter
>> > or
>> > > GitHub Id
>> > >
>> > > 2. The format is much more readable for people who search for something
>> > in
>> > > a search engine and land on the page.
>> > >
>> > > 3. Markdown support makes it easier to read code in the discussion.
>> > >
>> > > 4. Like button and marking a reply as answer signals the usefulness of
>> an
>> > > answer.
>> > >
>> > > That said, if a reasonable number of people like email lists better,
>> I'm
>> > > not against it as far as it can co-exist along with the discuss forum.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > > Indu
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 11:23 PM Sergio Fernández <wikier@apache.org>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Thanks for your opinion, Tianqi. I still would love to listen others'
>> > > > opinion on the topic to really assert anything.
>> > > >
>> > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:41 Tianqi Chen <tqchen@cs.washington.edu>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Then who should represent the users who are using the forums
but
>> not
>> > > the
>> > > > > mail-list? I personally think it is a bit abuse use of the term
>> > "Apache
>> > > > > way" to force our mind into the entire community... Maybe I am
>> > wrong..
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Tianqi
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:39 PM, Sergio Fernández <
>> wikier@apache.org
>> > >
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Well, I do respect what you discussed in that meetup, if
course.
>> > But
>> > > > for
>> > > > > > those who weren't there, maybe the decision taken what a
bit
>> bias.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > In Apache we like to say that "if it didn't happen on the
mailing
>> > > list
>> > > > s,
>> > > > > > it didn't happen" ;-)
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Look like there are different feelings about this. Should
I cast
>> a
>> > > > VOTE?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:27 Tianqi Chen <
>> tqchen@cs.washington.edu>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > I do think we are targeting all the community, but
we must also
>> > > agree
>> > > > > > that
>> > > > > > > the voice of users from the meetup is a representative
sample
>> of
>> > > > users'
>> > > > > > > demand, and it is important that we respect that.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Tianqi
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:25 PM, Sergio Fernández
<
>> > > wikier@apache.org
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Are we targeting just Seattle as our community?
I really hope
>> > we
>> > > > are
>> > > > > > > > thinking a bit beyond that...
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:22 Tianqi Chen <
>> > > tqchen@cs.washington.edu>
>> > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > I remember last time during the mxnet meetup
in Seattle, we
>> > > did a
>> > > > > > > survey,
>> > > > > > > > > and most users preferred the current discuss
forum. So I
>> > would
>> > > > say
>> > > > > we
>> > > > > > > > stick
>> > > > > > > > > with that given the user community prefers
that
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Tianqi
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Sergio Fernández
<
>> > > > > wikier@apache.org
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > Then, if everybody agree, let's request
the mailing list
>> > > > creation
>> > > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > > INFRA
>> > > > > > > > > > ;-)
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > Marco, I wouldn't do that. Typically
developers are also
>> > > > > subscribed
>> > > > > > > > > there,
>> > > > > > > > > > since they may be the most informed
people for answering
>> > > users'
>> > > > > > > > > questions.
>> > > > > > > > > > But the topics discussed there may not
be of the interest
>> > for
>> > > > > pure
>> > > > > > > > > > development purposes. Some discussions
will jump from
>> > users@
>> > > > to
>> > > > > > dev@
>> > > > > > > ,
>> > > > > > > > > but
>> > > > > > > > > > at a different level. So I wouldn't
forward one mailing
>> > list
>> > > to
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > > other.
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018, 21:01 Marco de
Abreu
>> > > > > > > > > > <marco.g.abreu@googlemail.com.invalid>
wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > I think nobody was opposed to it
in the past, right?
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > I'd propose that all emails automatically
get copied to
>> > > dev@
>> > > > > to
>> > > > > > > > ensure
>> > > > > > > > > > > high
>> > > > > > > > > > > visibility initially. What do you
think?
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > Sebastian <ssc@apache.org>
schrieb am Fr., 15. Juni
>> > 2018,
>> > > > > 20:51:
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > I have already proposed this
many times in the past
>> and
>> > > > would
>> > > > > > > > > strongly
>> > > > > > > > > > > > encourage it.
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > -s
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > On 15.06.2018 21:56, Sergio
Fernández wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi,
>> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > is there any good reason
why the podling doesn't
>> > have a
>> > > > > > users@
>> > > > > > > > > > mailing
>> > > > > > > > > > > > list
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > yet?
>> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Honestly speaking, I'm
not a big fan of the other
>> > tools
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > > > podling
>> > > > > > > > > > is
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > using. Slack and Web
forums a cool tools, and I
>> used
>> > > > them a
>> > > > > > lot
>> > > > > > > > in
>> > > > > > > > > > > other
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > contexts. But when it
comes to transparency and
>> > > > community,
>> > > > > > > > mailing
>> > > > > > > > > > > lists
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > play a crucial role in
the Apache Way.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Users are the most important
asset a project can
>> > have.
>> > > > Even
>> > > > > > > more
>> > > > > > > > > than
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > developers, believe me.
So I think it's time to
>> > create
>> > > a
>> > > > > > users@
>> > > > > > > > > > > mailing
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > list for to helping MXNet
grow its community beyong
>> > the
>> > > > > core
>> > > > > > > > team.
>> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers,
>> > > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>

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